Ranked truths about elo hell and ranked in general.

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Te5ma

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Elo hell can't define a range of elo because there will always be bad players throughout such an enormpus range. If you want to tell yourself that elo hell is 0-1800, go right ahead but it still lands on your shoulders to progress, if you are in fact good enough. Raising elo doesn't happen overnight unless you get very lucky in the matchmaking.


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CrystalisX

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Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimoar View Post
you also need to realize that making the least mistakes means you win most of the time, if a team mate makes a lot of mistakes GG, if the enemy makes a lot of mistakes GG.

Plat players crying because their stuck in 700 ELO just proves this thread wrong, will they climb out? god only knows..

This is a team game, ELO Reflects how well your team was, not you personally.
Correction, ELO Change reflects how well your team did compared to the other team for that GAME. It is only 1 game that it is a reflection of. Your ELO is an accumulation of all your ELO Changes of all your games. In all these cases, there is one constant factor which is you yourself.

Therefore, your ELO reflects how well you are able to play with random teams against other random teams. As to the person who asked why "supposedly good" players like ReginaId has trouble climbing back ELO, his teammates doesn't know how to follow up with his self-proclaimed super aggressive playstyle and he doesn't know how to adjust his playstyle to that of his teammates. If you followed the Korean scene at all, Maknoon had trouble succeeding with Najin Shield because his teammates didn't know how to follow up on his aggressiveness. Then when he formed Najin Sword with players that knew how to follow his aggressiveness they became one of the top teams in the world. In the case of any player who is having trouble reclimbing ELO since the reset, the fault is never solely on their team nor on them, but rather a combination of the two.


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T0ggle

Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoltenShots View Post
I have seen a HUGE influx of ranked threads and elo hell threads since the end of S2.

most of these are about the win loss ratio and not being able to climb out of elo hell and staying in the same elo range.

this isn't elo hell. this isn't something wrong with the matchmaking system. this is the matchmaking system doing it's job correctly.

the reason for staying around the same elo is because you are at the elo for your skill level.

you need to realize that 1200 elo is GOOD. that is the too 25ish% of the players. not counting the ones that don't play ranked.

I know I will probably get a ton of downvotes for this thread but I wanted to share some information about how 1200elo is good and this "elo hell" is just your current skill range. and when you get out of that elo hell, this means that you have increased your skill level and will fall into another "elo hell" when you get to the point that you reach your skill level again.

this is why high ranked players are so easily able to come from low elos or from smurfs because their "elo hell" is much higher and they can get other accounts there because that is their skill level.

if you have anything to add to this thread I will put it on the main page to help spread the info around the community.

Against! 1200elo is not bad! that is in the top percentage of the players!!
Ive had about 5afkers since ranked started, in fact I was 10/4 brand 2/0winloss then had 2 afkers immediatly.
Now im kinda stuck in 1300 elo and im even afraid to play...

I dont think I belong in this elo, I wasnt even given a chance to go beyond 1400 BECAUSE of the afkers, so nobody will ever know if I deserved to go beyond that point.

and you want to tell people here in this thread that they deserve their elo, this is not for everyone. I completely disagree with what your saying.


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InstantLockHeim

Junior Member

11-20-2012

What I don’t understand is riot accepts those reports from the very players that are seen as being guilty of the same offensives!

I've seen tribunal cases made against players and you can Cleary see those that are reporting are engaging in the same offensives!
Wake the **** up riot!


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Raisu

Senior Member

11-20-2012

tldr: Statistics don't mean much outside of a perfect world in regards to individual players and can be kept "normal" over the mass of players through a number of different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lücifel View Post
I'm guessing you don't understand how queue works. If one player leaves, the rest are to be considered hitting "Play" and starting the lobby at the same time. This makes the chances of getting paired with the same person higher.

If you don't like the team composition, then wait a few minutes before entering the lobby again.
It makes the chances of getting paired with the same players higher (all 9 other players, both from your team and their team). The example was illustrating occurrences that I have actually witnessed not once but on a number of occasions where after multiple dodges we'd lose someone that was on the team originally, and then later get that person back and have the team we started out with in the first champion-selection phase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronyOwl View Post
No. One is a team of 4, the other is a team of 5. That's not a 50/50 chance.
Both sides, are still a team of 5. Whether you get one set of 4 paired with you, or the other set of 4 paired with you. Sure, in the end they have that 5th person that is not you. However, nothing of great significance kept you from being on that other team instead.

Quote:
Or, put another way: supposing I've got a deck of cards labeled Pro, Average, Scrub, Feeder, and Leaver. Then I plop a Pro card in front of myself, shuffle the deck, and deal out four extra cards to myself and five to you. Would you say that's a fair game, since each of us has a "50/50 chance" to get a bad hand?

No, you'd say of course I'd win, at least on average, I've got a guaranteed Pro. That's exactly the situation if you're really better than your Elo.
In a perfect world, yes you would win on average. The reality is that some people cannot be carried to a win. I've also had occurences where i was teamed up with someone from a previous game (granted, due to their poor performance, i should have dodged) who tried to coerce the team into thinkin that I would throw the game before it even started. In that game I went 6/0 early, and by the time i had gotten my first death 29 minutes in, i was 12/0.

I constantly tried to get my team to follow calls, watch pings, watch chat, etc but they wouldn't. We ended up losing because my team wouldn't assist in taking advantage of the lead we had. ("Oh well stop relying on your team", yea i've heard that one too... you can't carry 4 people who don't help work towards a win)

Quote:
This is a convoluted and pointless anecdote that says nothing but "It's possible to get a bad player on your team or the enemy team." If you look at the odds of getting Player 4 on your team OVERALL, and not just in the two incredibly specific scenarios you just described, you'll find that it's still 4:5 in your favor.
The scenarios aren't really that specific...considering how often people queue dodge. Blatantly labeling one of the players as a feeder may have skewed the overall meaning of the example, but take it for what you will.

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tldr: Read the next sentence

People who want to lose, will lose, and if they are the majority they will drag down anyone they're with.

Just yesterday I had an interesting game with a Chogath who was complaining that I never gave him blue buff even though I asked if he needed it and even pinged for him to take it each time and was saying thats why we lost. Completely ignoring the fact that we had a Support who was feeding, a Top who was feeding. But the more amusing part of that game was that top and bot were saying i wasnt ganking, which I was and even got both of them kills when I did or caused their opponent to back out of lane.

Yet on the complete opposite side of the spectrum:

After that, I had another game where our Veigar took my advice as hostile attacks against him saying that he shouldn't be running out of mana in a few seconds, that he needed to farm more with his Q and not his W, Also pointed out, that if he was that reliant on mana before i could get him the next blue buff that he should be running MP/5 per level seals instead of full Flat AP runes.

He proceeded to mute me at that point, and then ranted about how I was probably mad that he overextended, got ganked by khazix, etc ( he made about 8 messages in his ranting) when i hadn't even said word (though he was unaware of it).

Later on i (somewhat sarcastically as he had me muted) asked if he wanted blue buff. Taric repeated this message so that Veigar could see it, he came and took blue buff and unmuted me. Not long afterwards we won.


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Jgrhymes

Senior Member

11-20-2012

As someone brand new to ranked I was pretty anxious to play this season to see where I would land. I read all the stories about ranked and elo hell and actually made a thread asking people what they would have done differently to prepare to try to avoid said "hell".

Anyway, all that to say, the stories I've read about trolls and afk's seem absolutely true so far. I haven't even played 10 games yet and I've had all of the following happen (match history will prove):

- 5th pick forced to support, instalock karma and proceed to feed because they wanted mid.
- Jayce rage and afk because jungle didn't gank top within the first 4 minutes.
- Duo bot lane troll with xin and nunu and go 0-10 combined in 5 minutes. (Same happened with a trist and nunu bot but they weren't trolling they were just getting wrecked, which happens so whatever..)
- Support amumu feed because first pick locked jax jungle and he wanted jungle.

I'm not going to say I belong in a higher elo because to be quite honest I probably don't, I'm just illustrating this because I've now played 8 ranked games and in half it would take something really special to make up for the issues above. So far 50% of my games have been basically unwinnable which is pretty disheartening.

Having said that, I'm sure the 2 I have won had something similar occur on the other team. Hopefully it evens out but so far it's been pretty rough.


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Raisu

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgrhymes View Post
Anyway, all that to say, the stories I've read about trolls and afk's seem absolutely true so far. I haven't even played 10 games yet and I've had all of the following happen (match history will prove):

- 5th pick forced to support, instalock karma and proceed to feed because they wanted mid.
- Jayce rage and afk because jungle didn't gank top within the first 4 minutes.
- Duo bot lane troll with xin and nunu and go 0-10 combined in 5 minutes. (Same happened with a trist and nunu bot but they weren't trolling they were just getting wrecked, which happens so whatever..)
- Support amumu feed because first pick locked jax jungle and he wanted jungle.

So far 50% of my games have been basically unwinnable which is pretty disheartening.
The unfortunate truth behind all of this as well, is that those were likely Placement Matches, which meant you probably lost 40 or so points each time entirely due to trolls / feeders / leavers.


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Shadron

Senior Member

11-20-2012

I would say a lot of plat players having a hard time getting back to their rating would be due to them forgetting what its like to play at a lower rating, as you have to play differently to carry at different elos


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Taintednight

Senior Member

11-20-2012

I'm proud to be @ 860 ELO soon to be 400 ELO. Because I belong in Elo Hell.


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Ghostface Killah

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadron View Post
I would say a lot of plat players having a hard time getting back to their rating would be due to them forgetting what its like to play at a lower rating, as you have to play differently to carry at different elos
This right here in season 2 on my old main I dropped from 1800s to 1400 mainly to me and a friend just not caring to much. Needless to say it took me about 4 days to start climbing because I was so used to how higher elo players play.