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[Game][Feedback][Major] Season 3: Ionic Spark vs. Statikk Shiv and why it is terrible

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Krufix

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Ionic Spark doesn't have a slow.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
RexSaur:
The only champion that actually got hurt by this is Volibear imo, ...Shen can still rush sunfire and maybe even tiamat for split pushing

I agree that Volibear will miss it. Just FYI guys: Anybody who wants to split push need only buy a Tiamat. The active on that items makes it insane. really....


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Ticking Death

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
IonDragonX:
The Shiv is good, I think. Its PBE after all.

It could use one little buff, tho. If you make a critical hit, the amount of charge that you get from the attack should have your crit damage modifier applied. i.e. x2 or x2.5


Good idea, except for this - what happens if you get a crit chance of somewhere around 80% (easy on GP since his build practically requires it, among others)? This item is meant for chasing. You build a lot of charges while moving and get a little on an attack, so you can proc the passive just about every other attack while chasing. Using GP as an example, he can achieve good MS and his Q will proc the Shiv. He can get an attack or two in along the way, with enough time to get the charges to proc again on his gun. Maybe even get the item to proc BEFORE his Q comes off of CD. If Riot did implement this extra mechanic, it would only be an extra 5 on a crit, maybe. The double or 2.5 is a lot - meaning that damage outpt could make the item OP.

It's a good thought, but it could break the mechanic that's already on it.


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Reek

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Just throwing this out there, Hurricane and Ionic Spark would probably be pretty OP.


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Khell DarkWolf

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Reek:
Just throwing this out there, Hurricane and Ionic Spark would probably be pretty OP.



With regards to this, I'm thinking if there was any remote chance of keeping ionic spark to avoid this imbalanced item combination you just pointed out.

Ionic spark could be changed to be only for Melee Champions as such with Runaan's hurricane being for ranged champions. And then add a scaling value to the passive to make it more in line with some of the other items like the previous posted mentioned with Malady.


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TiberiusAudley

Adjudicator

11-18-2012

Shiv works wonders with Hurricane for AoE Ranged DPS, just saying >.>


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Piotyr

Member

11-19-2012

You guys are forgetting a champ that work equally well with both ionic and this now shiv
Kayle
Shes build for attack speed crit to shred armor and ms as well as take advantage of these new items, she has a ranged attack without being an adc. Its beautiful.


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Fox P McCloud

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
TiberiusAudley:
Shiv works wonders with Hurricane for AoE Ranged DPS, just saying >.>


Problem is Hurricane encourages building on hit and pure AD while Shiv encourages building crit chance, damage, and AD, so they contradict each other a bit.


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Candentis

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Shiv works wonders on Gangplank- If you Crit on Parrrrley, get your Frozen Fist and Shiv effect, I feel bad for the carry on the receiving end.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
DarrkWolfe:

Ionic Spark:

Item cost 2100g (575g)

+50% attack speed
+250 health
Unique Passive: Every fourth autoattack unleashes a chain lightning, dealing 125 magic damage to up to 4 targets. Targets cannot be hit twice by the same lightning. (400 bounce range)



Statikk Shiv:
Item Cost: 2450
Recipe Cost: 525

+40% Attack Speed
+20% Critical Strike Chance
+6% Movement Speed
UNIQUE Passive: Moving and attacking builds Static Charges. At 100 Charges, your next attack expends the Charges to deal 100 magic damage to up to 4 targets. This damage can critically strike.


With internal testing on statikk shiv I have found that:

- You must either get 10 auto attacks to complete the charges
- or move constantly for 7-8 seconds
- Moving and attacking with stutter stepping takes roughly the same amount of time if not longer to achieve the passive proc
- While not reliant on autoattacks, if all you did was move. You could have a for sure mechanic to have the proc ready. But is much more inconsistent in a optimal environment of combat


- 10 AA are needed, indeed.
- you move currently with at least 370 MS (T2 boots), but most champs walk with nearly 400 MS. 100 range means 5 charges. 400 range means 20 charges. So after 5 sec of moving i have full stacks already. You also got +6% MS, what means you will be able to do it faster.
=> A decent player moves between each AA (probably around 200 range), so each AA provides you with actually 20 stacks, what means you only need 5 AA to really trigger it. It won't be faster than purely moving, but faster than purely AA.
- It is a great poking item on some champs (e.g. GP). Run and Q, run and Q, run and Q.
- the price is a bit misleading. It says 2500g, but cause avarice blade should provide around 250-500 gold (based on how fast you want to upgrade it), the costs are actually lower.

I say 3 things about it, that I don't like:
- Avarice gives only 10% crit chance now, what makes it even more inconsistent early. Don't like that chance, even when you get a decent amount of gold out of it. That makes the build path pretty hard to use in lanes.
- Shiv should get 25% crit chance then, too. Even with Avarice, the item is still a tick too expensive for these stats and the active.
- 10 stacks per AA is a bit low. Increase it to 12 (easy to tweak if needed).

The items itself is a great idea and the possibility to balance it is everywhere.


Ionic Spark. the Item some people seem to love. What is the problem with it?
The lighting is hard to control. Not that it needs 4 AA or the dmg, but the item itself can only push lanes, but is pretty bad in 1v1 fights. On the other side, it gets great in 5v5 fights (125 *4 dmg? that's a lot). On the other side, you want to focus on one target normally and bring it down.
So Ionic spark too the place of Tiamat by dealing the AOE dmg and being a pusher item, while using the AS from Wits end.

The explanation could go on and on with AS + AOE dmg being a problem on Irelia, Shen and even Jax.
Also AS items + on hit effects starting to get a problem on champs like Irelia, Jax and Shen (also Kog and others with the new items in S3), cause they can react with actually one and the same item to every situation. AS + on hit solves some of their already hard to find weaknesses.