@Tryndamere @Ryze @Morello Final Pre-season Feedback

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XtraToothpaste

Senior Member

12-04-2012

The game should be made into a full length book. Lore problem solved.
Who wouldn't read it?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wocka Flocka

Junior Member

12-04-2012

Okay so I read through the post and the first thing that stood out was how well everything had been cited through links. Despite this, Riot is not going to concern itself with this post. And yes, any given person that has had the misfortune of reading Kitae's lore reworks will agree that she is a pathetic writer (did she actually pass ENC1102?). But at the same time, LoL isn't known for its lore. So while there is no logical explanation for how she has managed to get and hold this job, things are unlikely to change.

In my opinion the only thing that posts like this will do is waste your time. That and allow you to vent your frustrations, I suppose. And who knows, maybe this public humiliation of Kitae will cause her to have a massive self-esteem crisis and fall into a deep depression. That doesn't seem to be in line with your ideals of online equality and respect.

All absurdity aside, well crafted post but save your effort for something winnable.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eserine

Senior Member

12-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wocka Flocka View Post
Okay so I read through the post and the first thing that stood out was how well everything had been cited through links. Despite this, Riot is not going to concern itself with this post. And yes, any given person that has had the misfortune of reading Kitae's lore reworks will agree that she is a pathetic writer (did she actually pass ENC1102?). But at the same time, LoL isn't known for its lore. So while there is no logical explanation for how she has managed to get and hold this job, things are unlikely to change.

In my opinion the only thing that posts like this will do is waste your time. That and allow you to vent your frustrations, I suppose. And who knows, maybe this public humiliation of Kitae will cause her to have a massive self-esteem crisis and fall into a deep depression. That doesn't seem to be in line with your ideals of online equality and respect.

All absurdity aside, well crafted post but save your effort for something winnable.
Thank you Wocka Flocka. While I highly agree about the likeliness of anyone at Riot paying attention to this thread, at least someone had to try putting forward an analysis of the weak-spots within the company for an attempt at improving things. I see no reason why L.o.L. couldn't be known for its addictive and immaculate storytelling just as much as for its other, more-refined elements. The lore is part of the 'total player experience' and should not be neglected any more than a piece or component of a luxury car design should be (as indeed racial representation and the wider social context of LoL's success should likewise be better attended).

On the other hand, I would find it amusing (however unlikely it is), if "Henry Plainview" was a smurf account created by one of the head Riot staff. In the film "There Will Be Blood" the character Henry Plainview was a puppet invented by a master capitalist for the purpose of manipulating the pliable and weak-minded masses. Likewise Plainview in this thread attempts to shape player opinion by commenting early against proposed reforms (and like Riot never touches on the matter of race), perhaps to avoid having to pay-out a lucrative severance package to a fired employee? XD

As to your charges, my ideals of online equality and respect do not extend to the full protection of Kitae's self-esteem because in choosing to take on her role as a leader within one of the most popular computer games on Earth she has put herself into the public spotlight, both for acclaim and validation (which I assume is why she chooses to speak at conferences) and also abuse and ridicule at the hands of an angry public when she makes unpopular decisions. In cases where such a leader is doing a bad job consistently, severe criticism from the playerbase will naturally begin to question the worth or talent of such a figure, just as with leaders in the world of athletics or politics or industry. This path of consequence should be understood to come with the job. With the high salary afforded to her Kitae can use some of the money she earns on very comprehensive high-end counseling or therapy (living in metropolitan California) should she require this to cope with the pressures of continuous scrutiny or the unique rigors of the game-designer lifestyle.

If Kitae's concept of self-worth is unhealthily tied solely to the idea that she is good at writing game content it might be quite beneficial for her to evolve perspective upon her obviously non-boundless potential. Not only is she bad at the position she has chosen to pursue, as we equally conclude, but she seems to lack the necessary tools to ever become better, through observation of bad habits- the lore as it exists now resembles something absentmindedly scrawled on the back of a napkin while a procrastinating writer intently watches television. Psychological research suggests that depressed individuals generally rate as more observant, objective, and detail-oriented than members of the wider populace, so if she were to ever become swayed by player feedback it may actually help things in terms of game quality (assuming she does not then become heavily-medicated to the extent of cognitive-impairment or adopt negative coping mechanisms like pornography addiction). Frankly I would prefer it if she were simply let go to weigh-down another, less popular franchise.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eserine

Senior Member

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Railer890

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Recruiter

12-05-2012

I had to login and then re-find this post so I could comment. I often just scan through threads on this forum before going to bed, and I rarely (if ever) actually comment. I felt compelled to respond to this post, however. For one, this post is incredibly well written. The narrative is very easy to follow, even for a person unfamiliar with the situation. On to the actual content.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to write off the importance of lore for any game, especially with some mantra about League not being a "lore driven game." Perhaps, at its core, it isn't a lore driven game. Not in the way that, say, Mass Effect (from your original post) is. But without lore the game has no purpose. For comparison, look at World of Warcraft. There are of course players that turn on instant quest-text and skip through everything except the rewards at the bottom of the menu right before clicking the "Accept" button. There are also players who thoroughly enjoy reading through quest texts to gain insight into their favorite character's back story, or history behind a particular devastated environment they are exploring. Why shouldn't Riot explore the many possibilities evident in the already presented lore? They already have a lore director employed. If the part of the community that cares about lore is displeased with the direction it's taking, that should be sign enough to rethink their current strategy. It's also an odd disconnect when compared to the way the rest of the company seems to be run. Perhaps I have blinders on because I enjoy playing the game, but Riot does seem to do their best to provide a quality gaming experience (complete with attempts to control the ever-present toxic environment most online games have).

I don't have much experience with how Riot handles racism on the forums, because I tend to stick to reading OPs that have an interesting topic. Then I just ignore any further comments. I wouldn't mind seeing moderators crack down on that sort of thing in general. I think too many people misunderstand their 1st amendment rights. To more specifically reference the quote you posted, I think it's absurd to attempt to interpret someone's true feelings towards a race as anything BUT what is outwardly stated. Why would one assume that racist malicious intent is LESS malicious because it's online? Proof positive that online bullying exists, and is often overlooked with the mantra "they don't mean it, it's just the internet."


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Khamryn

Junior Member

12-06-2012

Eh, just so you know:

You sound so pompous it's difficult to read your posts at all. Yes I understand all your fancy words, but the point is they are not necessary and just make you sound like a... well. A pompous dick.

No offense intended. Just saying you may get a better response if you didn't ramble on forever and insist on using fancy words every two seconds. :\

PS- I like that LoL has lore, but it is not essential to me. I play the game for the strategic challenges it presents. It's like exercise for the brain. Anyway. Bye ^^;


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eserine

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Railer890 View Post
I had to login and then re-find this post so I could comment. I often just scan through threads on this forum before going to bed, and I rarely (if ever) actually comment. I felt compelled to respond to this post, however. For one, this post is incredibly well written. The narrative is very easy to follow, even for a person unfamiliar with the situation. On to the actual content.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to write off the importance of lore for any game, especially with some mantra about League not being a "lore driven game." Perhaps, at its core, it isn't a lore driven game. Not in the way that, say, Mass Effect (from your original post) is. But without lore the game has no purpose. For comparison, look at World of Warcraft. There are of course players that turn on instant quest-text and skip through everything except the rewards at the bottom of the menu right before clicking the "Accept" button. There are also players who thoroughly enjoy reading through quest texts to gain insight into their favorite character's back story, or history behind a particular devastated environment they are exploring. Why shouldn't Riot explore the many possibilities evident in the already presented lore? They already have a lore director employed. If the part of the community that cares about lore is displeased with the direction it's taking, that should be sign enough to rethink their current strategy. It's also an odd disconnect when compared to the way the rest of the company seems to be run. Perhaps I have blinders on because I enjoy playing the game, but Riot does seem to do their best to provide a quality gaming experience (complete with attempts to control the ever-present toxic environment most online games have).

I don't have much experience with how Riot handles racism on the forums, because I tend to stick to reading OPs that have an interesting topic. Then I just ignore any further comments. I wouldn't mind seeing moderators crack down on that sort of thing in general. I think too many people misunderstand their 1st amendment rights. To more specifically reference the quote you posted, I think it's absurd to attempt to interpret someone's true feelings towards a race as anything BUT what is outwardly stated. Why would one assume that racist malicious intent is LESS malicious because it's online? Proof positive that online bullying exists, and is often overlooked with the mantra "they don't mean it, it's just the internet."
Very well said Railer890! Thank you for your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khamryn View Post
Eh, just so you know:

You sound so pompous it's difficult to read your posts at all. Yes I understand all your fancy words, but the point is they are not necessary and just make you sound like a... well. A pompous dick.

No offense intended. Just saying you may get a better response if you didn't ramble on forever and insist on using fancy words every two seconds. :\

PS- I like that LoL has lore, but it is not essential to me. I play the game for the strategic challenges it presents. It's like exercise for the brain. Anyway. Bye ^^;
Sorry that I seem like a pompous dick. When writing on the forums I actually go to great trouble to use much simpler words and turns of phrase than I normally would use, so I am glad you were able to understand what I was trying to get across. I feel the same annoyance with reporters or thinkers who write their articles or internet essays partially in French or German without having any special idea to require doing that (even though I can speak those and other languages).

Do you know where all the players are who DO consider lore essential are? They are not playing LoL, or they are slowly in the process of leaving. LoL loses lots of potential customers by ignoring this. Even you may not "like that LoL has lore" when the lore team reveals their new lore delivery format that they have claimed to be developing since the Journal of Justice ended. If it is embarrassingly stupid (much like the recent lore) it will lower the quality of the game, as they are already doing more slowly.

The lore isn't currently rating up with your very favorite story or group of stories (or even coming close), and doesn't seem "essential", because the lore team is bad. Riot can and should fix this.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FaerKhan

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Bump


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Angekok

Junior Member

12-06-2012

This is my first time contributing to the forums, so please excuse any ignorance I may show in my following post concerning racism on the forums and online bullying. Considering how well written (I hate myself for saying that, given so many people before me have said the same word for word, but it's true) and thought out your original post was, I wanted to throw my two cents in.

To give you a brief idea of how often I use the forums and play the game, I started playing LoL in 2011, a little bit before Snowdown Showdown began, and have only been to the forums to look at updates that pop up in the game's starting news feed.

First I'd like to start by following in your tracks. Let's begin with the first problem you visit, concerning the LoL lore department and Kitae's incompetence. Personally I don't give LoL lore any thought while playing the game, and generally never have.

Looking at the lore about what the Baron Nashor really is, or where Cho'Gath came from is usually an afterthought. This is because of the nature of the game. It's a spiritual successor to DotA, which had no lore to speak of, and was a custom game on WC3 that had as much back story as Evolves maps did on SC:BW. My point: the game is meant to be played competitively, not thought about.

However, you make a very good point when you say this is because of Kitae, and point out how it could be better and could attract player interest with a competent leader in the lore department. I will have to agree with you here, and I'd like to explain why.

Starcraft: Broodwar is a competitive RTS that throws you into the position of one of three races, and the game is designed as a dangerous rock-paper-scissor contest where if one player spawns too many rocks, the other player can easily make some paper to crush (or wrap) them. Starcraft's competitive gaming became so popular, it's easily recognized today worldwide because of Korea. In fact, it's difficult to separate Korea and Starcraft on the internet, they often seem to go hand-in-hand. Blizzard Entertainment (well, now Activisition-Blizzard, which I won't go into about here) rewards thousands of dollars to winners in Korea just for playing a game developed in 1998.

Despite this, Starcraft has an interesting back story and universe. Each character feels unique and has a personality that carries them throughout the story as detestable villains or loveable heroes that we can root for or against.

I know a lot of players who to this day haven't played through the campaigns multiple times, but I love the story so much that I must have done so 100 times by now. Starcraft lore can be found in books that Blizzard allowed, or in fan-fiction communities (of course, being fan-fic, your mileage may vary on if they can be considered good), I have even seen Starcraft role playing before!

Starcraft lore fans exist and seem as determined to hold on to the good writing and storytelling their previously-beloved company put out as you do for LoL that I see many parallels here. When Starcraft 2 came out, it literally split the fan base.

Those who loved Starcraft for its wonderful universe, story, and strong characters saw this new creation as a cash cow or abomination, considering how much it suddenly retconned without warning. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" - Blizzard broke something that didn't needed to be fixed.

On the other hand, there were the competitive gamers that saw Starcraft 2 as a cool continuation, and didn't see what was wrong with the game. In their mind, this was an improvement; the graphics were updated, there were new strategies to employ, etc.. Why be up in arms when part of the game you didn't pay attention to was changed?

...Things starting to seem familiar?

And that's just Starcraft. Let's tackle another popular game that many people wouldn't have even thought had a well written plot and back ground story for its universe: Halo. I've only played Halo 3, since back in high school I considered myself a rebel and never decided to jump on the Halo bandwagon when all of my peers were fanatical devotees to it and the franchise.

However, I've recently discovered a rich universe that rarely makes the light of day that takes place in Halo. There are whole source books written about the different races and how they think, why they want to do certain things, and history lessons about the war with the Convenant and what happened before then.

A personal friend has invested a lot of money just into books concerning the Halo storyline that are published almost like an aside. They're rarely mentioned, but give players like myself and apparently you the opportunity to immerse ourselves in the world and create a more enriching experience while killing the aliens. We have a reason to hate them now, or even to pity some of them.

EDIT: The Halo example above shows that a franchise can be successful without the use of lore in its games. It's offered as something players can explore outside of the game. I know your argument is that our current lore is sub-par at best under Kitae's steering of the ship (and that this point brings us back to "is no lore better than bad lore?"), but my point is that LoL can be successful even with Kitae in charge. The lore's existance, and its quality, will not significantly impact how much money Riot makes, regardless of how many players that like lore are driven away from the current writing. Games like Call of Duty prove this too.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Winderz

Member

12-06-2012

I feel like if i wrote something long enough, even if it was wrong or even offensive, as long as it was too long to read, i'd get upvotes.