[Champion Concept] Nahuatl- The Last Mangsa

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Osprii

Senior Member

11-18-2012

bump this shizzzzzzz

You are so cool Osprii


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Osprii

Senior Member

11-19-2012

bump


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Osprii

Senior Member

11-19-2012

just edited the main post.
Now his arpen is slightly better on the Fight passive, but his slow is lower.


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Petyr Baelish

Senior Member

11-19-2012

I like your design. He reminds me a lot of a champion I designed a while back, Kaj'naar. Another champion focused on situational adaptation with modal toggles. Great minds think alike, as they say.

Here are some things you might want to think about:

Survivor needs a cooldown between toggles. Players usually hold keys for about 0.05 seconds, and what stance you end up in will be randomized by the time you take your finger off the keyboard. Most toggles have a 1 second cooldown, unaffected by cooldown reduction, you could probably get away with 0.5 if you want.

Rush: 900 is a long way to dash, as escapes go. That is about double the range of Flash, no champions have a gap closer that long that doesn't require a target or channel.

Thickening Hide: You stated the physical/armor part twice, and forgot about magic resist. Assuming the magic resist is parallel to the armor, triggering off magic damage, it is irrelevant, no champion deals magic damage more than about 7 times with their full skillset, and the magic resist you gain from that is negligible. Also, is the passive lost while it is on cooldown?

All in all, he seems quite strong, he can build bruiser and deal tons of damage while remaining tanky. He is also very hard to counter, with a long range gap closer, burst, sustain, and armor pen. If you haven't, read Katsuni's guide to champion creation, it is very insightful: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2099323

If you want to see a somewhat similar champ, check out Kaj'naar, the Living Evolution: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1334668

On a side note, there is a conspiracy theory going around that Kha'Zix was inspired by Kaj'naar, who was made nearly a year before Kha'Zix was released. After you read the concept, see if you agree.


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Osprii

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Thanks for the review Petyr!

Alright, I changed how Survivor works. Players can control which passive they end up on by toggling the ability once or twice within 2 seconds. Toggling it twice will move them to the passive that is two spaces away from the passive they are currently on. The order of the passives are Fight, Flight, then Feed. Press Q twice to get to Feed from Fight, and to get to Fight from Flight, as random examples. I hope I explained it well enough. It's very slightly like TF's Pick a Card. The cooldown is to prevent players from spam switching between the passives, sorta like Udyr's overall cooldown on his abilities. Of course, this toggle has no active, so the cooldown is still quite short.

I shortened the overall range of the dash and the range bonus when Nahuatl is in flight mode, you are right, it IS too much.

I fixed the explanation on Thickening Hide, thanks for pointing that out. To explain the magic resist part, you can gain multiple stacks from one attack. For example, if Fizz sharks you, and deals 25% of your maximum health in magic damage with that one move, Nahuatl would gain 25 stacks of the magic resist portion of Thickening Hide. The passive is not lost on cooldown.

I'll try to balance Nahuatl out a little. Thanks again. I'll check out Kaj'naar when I have the chance.


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Osprii

Senior Member

11-26-2012

Just got back from Cali.

bump


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Darklightning

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Senior Member

12-06-2012

Well thought out!

I was hesitant to like the Survivor ability as it is solely passive -- which I know Riot doesn't like by itself... but it isn't just a passive, it's a toggle passive that synergizes with everything. So amazing.

I updated Flade and would love further feedback from you.


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Osprii

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Oh, yeah, I remember reviewing Flade. It would be interesting to see how he turned out since I last did a review.


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Dzanio

Senior Member

12-06-2012

This post is getting long :/ sorry bout that. I actually started off talking about the q, and then thought about the passive, so to make the order logical I'm restarting here.

First, +1.5% movespeed per stack up to 10 stacks seems high, unless the stacks of Nomad and Predator don't stack with each other (i.e it takes 10 seconds for one to degrade from max before the other starts powering up) in which case it's probably a little underpowered, and I'd suggest capping the stacks lower (~3-5) for balance. Predator also currently gives at lvl 1 a maximum AD boost of 29, 6 more than a wriggles lantern (1200 gold), and with the armpen passive from q is even higher, effectively more like 40 which is about a bf sword (1550 gold). This would be completely OP in laning phase, and even late game when it's giving 80 AD is really overpowered. I'd halve these values, either by reducing max stacks, or by reducing the base damage given to .25*lvl (2.5 extra max dmg lvl 1, 45 extra lvl 18) which is still significant.

The Q ability seems really overpowered, for example Olaf's ult only gives him 20 flat pen at rank 3, gives much better tenacity (but it's an ult, and lasts at most 5 seconds), and maxes out at the same 60 armor/mr pen (at lvl 16 as opposed to lvl 8). Also it doesn't give the rediculous sustain and damage output that feed would give (this is basically warwick's passive on steroids--the passive maxes out around 45 dmg total, out of 15 per auto attack, stacking up to 3 times). Considering that this ability costs no mana/casting resource, and starts off at 60 dmg, it's really broken. Maybe reduce max dmg a lot, OR make it stacking dmg on single target, say 10-15 per auto-attack/ability used max 60. Also, I feel that despite this overpowered q the champion would be under appreciated in high level play because starting in one stance for a gank or team fight means that you can't easily switch to the one that's 2 away from it i.e fight and feed during short engagement fights (ganks/most teamfights pre baron).

My suggestion is to nerf the armpen to 15-20 at max, the max armor/mr (20-30 is probably reasonable), the sustain (make it only occur every 3 hits like pheonix stance, or diana's passive/ahri passive etc), and to make switching between the stances more like TF's pick a card so that higher level play is possible. I would also increase the cooldown at low levels to around 9 seconds, and make it scale down to 4 seconds by rank 5. That way if you lane you can't just trash top lane at lvl 1 and snowball with no items to become GOD by lvl 8. Reduce the tenacity by about 15-20% (it's a lot stronger than Irelia's passive against single targets, or small groups of enemies), and the "upon getting hit movespeed increase" is a little rediculous from flight (since it stacks infinitely with itself). At least give that effect a cooldown (imo 2-3 seconds would be good--you may have other ideas).

Rush is a nice ability, and I think it's pretty well balanced, although I might change the knockback effect to be feed (this is for ganks right? you want that ability on your fight or feed ability), and then do a fear for the flight (or something). If you don't rework the q mechanic to be like pick a card, there's no way to go from knockback in flight to the move speed slow from autoattacks before the enemy champ gets under tower unless they're really over extended, and you have red buff, phage, or exhaust.

Thickening hide seems redundant with the armor bonus from flight. At max stacks you'll currently have over 135 extra mr and Armor just from these two abilities. Also, I thought the idea behind this champ was adaptation? Why does it only have one mechanic? At the least I think eviscerate needs to consume charges on Thickening hide to go with your idea. He should be super tank AND super dps, he should be super tank OR super dps as the player decides to play him.

Claw and Fang is basically a buffed version of Kha'zix ult, except you don't have to expend evolution points to get a second leap (on a different ability I might add), and a second invis (really third leap and invis when you consider Rush). You should break this ult down so that it mirrors your early idea with the champion; adaptation. Extra leaps for Feed, extra invis for Flight, or extra dmg for Fight.

Overall I like the champion idea, but it needs a lot of work.


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Osprii

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Thanks for the very extensive and in-depth review, Dzanio.

Let me see... I agree with the Passive being overpowered. I think I will reduce the maximum number of stacks and tweak the numbers on Predator slightly.

As for the Q, I don't think this is OP. See, it has no active. Let me compare them to pre-existing toggles/passives.

Feed: Comparable to Cho'gath's Vorpal Spikes. Cho'gath's spikes are a larger AoE, deal more damage, but don't heal the 'Gath. I'll reduce the AP ratio, though, because of the heal on Feed.

Flight: Trundle gains 40% cc reduction, 60% AS, and 40% movement speed for 8 seconds on a 15 second cooldown. I think that 40% movement speed and 60% attack speed is better than 60 armor and mr, so the fact that this is a constant toggle and his has a cooldown seems justified in my mind. I agree that the movespeed increase upon hit makes this better, though, so I'll remove that.

Fight: I don't have much experience with arpen, however, Yi and Fiora both have abilities that grant +35 AD as a passive, as well as having an active. This only grants 48 arpen. Arpen is better than AD against squishy targets, but worse against tanks, so its almost directly comparable. Then, there is the bleed. This is probably more effective than another 35 AD. So, I'll reduce that somewhat as well as the arpen, instead of just reducing the arpen.

I think with this nerf I'll also reduce the cooldown between switching stances, like you suggested. There really isn't too much reason to keep the cooldown high.

Also, the knockback isn't for ganks so much as helping an ally, because Flight isn't just for you yourself fleeing. The snare on Fight is for ganks.

Anyway, Thickening Hide can only stack Armor OR magic resist. You can only get a max of 75 of either armor or magic resist... I'll think about consuming stacks for Eviscerate. That is a pretty cool idea.

Ult, ult, ult... I didn't want to many abilities to change with the Q, or he would feel just like Jayce or Nidalee, but with three forms and an ultimate. I'm still working on the ultimate, that is DEFINITELY not the final thing.

Anyway, thanks a ton for your review, man. It helped a lot. And now, I shall edit.


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