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[Feedback] - New Masteries

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turulHAARP

Senior Member

11-17-2012

I will share my views too here:


Offensive Tree:
Didn't change too much.Tiers have been changed a bit as well as the strength of the masteries(nerfs) and we got Spellsword,which is something that could be useful for AP auto attackers.
However there were no big changes overall.

Defense Tree:
Big changes here.Defense went lower in the tree to make it no so accessible.
The only initialization mastery disappeared.This is something i really don't like.I lost 11ms just because that mastery disappeared.The one which gave +movement speed over 70% hp afaik.
We have Juggernaut which is still something i won't ever pick up.The gained bonus hp is not great enough to consider picking it up.
At 2000hp it gives 80 hp?With 3 point on it?Really?
At 3000hp it gives 120hp?Uh oh.
It's a T4 mastery already and need 3 points to get that hp amount what i don't find useful compared to the reduced slow or CC.Try to increase it to make it more appealing(between 5 and 6 %).As right now i wouldn't ever waste point to that mastery.
Also there is an empty place next to Juggernaut !!!!.
Please consider bringing back Initiator for those who want a little more movement speed instead cc reduction and Enlightment for those who want CDR.

Also you can just delete Juggernaut and put Initiator OR Enlightement to it's place instead...

Also there is Legendary Armor which is in T5,requires 2-3 point and a lot of resistance to get the same effect in teamfights as Defender.The scaling on it with 1,2 and 3 points is quite bad.
Consider increasing the scale from the current one.
Math time:
1 point of Legendary Armor:
100 armor ->1.25 bonus resistance
120 armor ->1.5 bonus resistance
150 armor ->1.875 bonus resistance
200 armor->2.5 bonus resistance.

2 points of Legendary Armor:
100 armor ->2.5 bonus resistance
120 armor ->3 bonus resistance
150 armor ->3.75 bonus resistance
200 armor->5 bonus resistance.

3 points of Legendary Armor:
100 armor ->3.75 bonus resistance
120 armor ->4.5 bonus resistance
135 armor ->5.0625 bonus resistance
150 armor ->5.626 bonus resistance
200 armor->7.5 bonus resistance.

4 points of Legendary Armor:
100 armor ->5 bonus resistance
120 armor ->6 bonus resistance
150 armor ->7.5 bonus resistance
200 armor->10 bonus resistance.

So in a 5v5 teamfight i need 3 point of LA. and 134-135 armor to get the same effect as Defender.This does not look good for me at all.
I can put the 2 point into reduced CC or less time spend dead or other masteries.
So i would like to see an increase on the scale of Legendary Armor.From the current one to something like this 1.75/2.75/4/5%.


Then there is Good Hands in T5 which came from the utility which brings another problem.

Utility Tree:Big changes here as well.Supports have way more choices here which is a good thing.
Scout is still useless.Wards are usually placed when no enemy champions are near.
Better change would be if it could see into the brush in that duration.
So it would be wards gain 25% increased vision and reveal the area for the first 3 seconds after placing them.Now that is actually something i could use and would put point into.

Going 21 in utility is worse than before with Mordekaiser,Katarina aka the manaless AP champs.
Before i could put points into good hand(3 points),Swiftness(4 points) and 1 point into Recall.Which resulted in good stats especially the movement speed.
But now i need to waste 1 point on either Scout or Artificer to get to T3.
Putting point into Artificer means i will need to build an activable item to benefit from the reduced active cooldown.But what if i don't/can't buy one???It's a waste of point.
Also putting 1 point into Scout is not that good either.IF it gets buffs then this complaint is null.

Sage disappeared,which leads to changes that are not good.
I am now forced to pick Greed to proceed further in the tree.And guess what i can't reach nimble with the points i have left.

Old pick:
3 points good hands
4 points swiftness
1 point improved recall
3 point transmutation
1 point runic affinity
4 point awareness
1 point sage
3 point intelligence
1 point mastermind

New pick:
3 point wanderer
1 point imrpoved recall
3 point mastermind
1 point for either artificer or scout Currently it's a waste of point
1 point runic affinity
And here comes the problem:
Mordekaiser and Katarina does not need Greed at all.And putting point into Biscuiteer is a waste as well.
But anyway let's put 3 point into greed.
4 point awareness
3 point vampirism
3 point intell-- OH WAIT i don't have more points left. 2 points Intelligence.
0 point Nimble.

So all in all i only lose important stats with the new mastery change in case of Mordekaiser and Katarina.

I lose:
3% permanent movement speed (HOLY SH--,Mordekaiser has no CC or mobility increase ability so this is a key stat for him.)
40 bonus experience on kills and assists.This is a huge stat too.This allowed Mordekaiser to snowball as well as Katarina.
+2% cooldown reduction
-5% cooldown reduction of Summoner Spells(Though this is probably a nerf across the board,but still )

I (gain):
+3% lifesteal
1.5 gold every 10 sec.
2% increased movement speed when out of combat. Mordekaiser needs movement speed in lane to not die and in teamfights.He is not a roamer as far as i know.
So this mastery is kinda useless for Morde.

Final stats i lose:
1% movement speed out of combat.But then again this out of combat increased ms stat is pretty bad on him...
40 bonus exp on kill and assist
+2% CDR
-5% CDR on Summoner Spells

Final stats i gain:
+3% lifesteal
1.5 gold every 10 sec

It's clear the lost stats outweight the gained stats a lot.

I thought Morello and other reds said that EACH ROLE will have better choices to spec into each tree.
This is not true in this case.
I think there is a hole in Utility tree which does not allow for Mordekaiser especially to have the ability to spec into the utility tree without wasted points.Pleae look into this.

Katarina does not suffer too much because she can roam quite well but she suffers from these changes as well.


These are my thoughts.


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Void2258

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Scout is too weak. Biscutier and explorer are both too weak to be worth it since they are deep in there and it's not the equivalent of a full potion or ward. Vampirisim needs to go back to the offensive tree or it will never be used, because the ones that will spec that deep into utility don't need it.


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

11-17-2012

bump


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Thanks for the input Klm, added you to the OP..

However, I don't think we see masteries the same way... imo they never offered a big advantage (no matter what they appeared to be giving)...

Quote:
KImre:
I will share my views too here:

Defense Tree:Juggernaut
While this does feel bad, I honestly like it... I mean hp is still pretty expensive... Each additional points (worth less than the first one) is worth 33g by the time you reach 1k hp...
Quote:

Legendary Armor

You guys should know my point by now, but let's do the math correctly to make sure it comes across... first of all, you have to sompare 1 point vs 1 point... so for 1 point of defender to be worth 1 point of LA you need :
80 Armor/MR when there is 1 opponent
160 Armor/MR when there is 2 opponent
240 Armor/MR when there is 3 opponent
320 Armor/MR when there is 4 opponent
400 Armor/MR when there is 5 opponent

So you should only take 4th LA if you think you will have trouble in lane (before ganks) and you are gonna get over 80 armor early... otherwise, you an also take it if you plan on exceeding 640 combined MR/Armor (usually you won't be in range of 5). As for the solution, I don't think anything under 1.4%/point could really work out...
Quote:

Utility Tree:
Scout is still useless.Wards are usually placed when no enemy champions are near.
Better change would be if it could see into the brush in that duration.
pretty good idea actually... don't even need the increased range at that point...
Quote:

Manaless
New pick:
3 point wanderer
1 point imrpoved recall
3 point mastermind
1 point for either artificer or scout Currently it's a waste of point
1 point runic affinity
And here comes the problem:
Mordekaiser and Katarina does not need Greed at all.And putting point into Biscuiteer is a waste as well.
But anyway let's put 3 point into greed.
4 point awareness
3 point vampirism
3 point intell-- OH WAIT i don't have more points left. 2 points Intelligence.
0 point Nimble.

My picks :
1 Summoner's Insight.
3 Wanderer (it will actually help quite a bit.
2 Artificier (There are now a lot of actives, but you can replace this for 1 mastermind 1 improved recall).
2 Mastermind
4 Greed (Can remove 1 for biscuit which basically gives you half a pot for free, but if the game lasts for more than 2 minutes, you are better with greed...)
2 Awareness
3 Vampirism (not sure how efficient this is, you can replace for 2 Awareness and 1 Pickpocket)
3 Intelligence
1 Nimble
Total : 21, now you choose 9 in def/off or simply take the choices you left behind (mastermid>vamp>wealth>biscuit>improved recall) that would mean 28 pts, I can take the summoner's X for my 2 spells...
Quote:

Morde vs Utility
The only thing that I find troublesome here is that... morde isn't a role... Mordekaiser is a specific champion that fits a specific alteration (manaless, farmer) of a specific role(tanky AP sustained DPS)[QUOTE]

These are my thoughts


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