Lightbringer (OP updated)

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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

11-16-2012

It's only purpose really is unfairly countering stealth. And the lack of a particle just leaves me confused when someone keeps attacking me when I stealth.

If the eyes above your head debuff was present when you got hit by this, I might be ok with it.


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Orphane

Senior Member

11-16-2012

It was outpaced by PD in S2 and it looks like it's got a very large amount of competition in S3 in Hurricane and Zephyr if it keeps the stats it's currently got, which is low AD, high attack speed.

The vision is powerful but it was completely obsoleted by pre-nerf Sweeper - why get it when your support/tank/casters will always have Sweeper? It might be in a better spot now but like Sauron said, a Hawkshot mini-active would do wonders for vulnerable AD carries who can't facecheck or engage without knowing their flank is secure.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

11-16-2012

I rarely buy it but I don't typically play the champs that would buy it. I think that sweeper is generally more useful though.


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Breakstar

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Senior Member

11-16-2012

The few times I've played Vayne on Dominion I picked up an early Lightbringer as an early attack speed/AD item (basically following Sauron's guide because I am terrible at Dominion itemization), but I picked it up as an AS/AD item, not as a "reveal stealth champions" item. As I recall, there was a Shaco in one game, but it literally never helped me fight him; if he was backdooring and I came to shove him off, he'd just Deceive away before I could land that first autoattack, and after that the only way I could reveal him is if he was ALREADY visible.

I guess I kind of question the logic of an item that reveals stealth champions that is contingent on being able to target them with an autoattack, which by definition doesn't work on stealthed champions. Because of that, the Lightbringer ends up being less of a "situational item to reveal stealth champions" and more of an "item that disables a very short list of abilities, counterpicking a nearly-random selection of champions".

Wukong, Akali, and Vayne, who primarily use their stealths defensively are weakened/neutered by this item, while champions who use their stealths aggressively (Rengar, Twitch) are essentially unaffected. Talon, similarly, rarely uses his ult for a purely defensive mechanism in a situation in which the Lightbringer would change the result (due to his movespeed during the stealth).
Teemo and Eve are literally unable to stealth while under fire, making the item meaningless against them (note that the other stealth concern with Teemo, which is 'revealing mushrooms' is impossible with the lightbringer).
Finally, intentionally or not, Kha'zix basically loses the use of his ult almost entirely when under Lightbringer fire; unless it's Evolved, he gains nothing by using his ult but 40% movespeed for one second (twice). I feel like that's a bit of a harsh penalty considering that it's quite difficult to close to melee range as Kha'zix without taking a stray Lightbringer autoattack.

Not to say the item's overpowered, just that the idea of a "stealth counter item for autoattackers" seems to have been poorly executed with the Lightbringer. The fact that such a heavy attack speed focus is not useful for many AD champions makes it awkward to buy. For example, if one is playing Riven, Lightbringer feels like an awful buy because she makes such poor use of attack speed, but the only alternative for counterbuilding stealth would be a Hextech Sweeper.

Edit: I suppose the correct phrasing should be "for permanently counterbuilding", since an Oracle's Extract will provide a stopgap solution for stealth champions.

Edit 2: Worth noting is the fact that the other primary use for the Lightbringer (other than revealing stealth champions) is for preventing brush jukes and turning a retreat into a bushwack (because the enemy has an ally in the bush). That's... technically valuable, but it's once again dependent on landing an autoattack on the retreating enemy first, and on the whole seems more like an unintentional result than a design choice. It gives a champion like Vayne no more ability to check bushes safely than she had before unless a helpful enemy enters the bush after being shot.


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Westlin

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I get it everytime I play Kog and sometimes when I play Kayle. It gives a lot of attack speed for a good price as well as dmg. The only reason I don't get it on more champs is because no crit chance means it does little for my piecemeal crit build.


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David12596

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Not a fan of its passive at all. It's too unhealthy in my opinion against stealth base champions who sometimes or always relies on stealth to get away from their enemies and/or promote hit and run gameplay with stealth. I would much rather keep stealth reveal mechanics into item active, then item passives. It creates more gameplay for both sides rather then just one side.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-16-2012

If you're asking for suggestions as to what AD carries need, a great place to start would be:


More movement speed items that only benefit AD carries so bruisers have to decide between defense and full offense. (Look at Wardens Mail for example, that item is pure BS)
A replacement for IE, IE is almost pretty much needed for any AD carry build, the problem is, it costs 4k gold and Carries do 0 damage before they have it, only problem is, it takes like 10 minutes to get, 10 minutes is at least half of a dominion game.
Sanguine blade is trash, most carries get executioners calling and only if teh game is dragged really long they may sell the EC for a sanguine blade as a last item.

That's all I can think from the top of my head, those 3 would be really great, we're not asking for a free flash although carries like Kogmaw, Ashe, Twitch, Sivir, Miss Fortune, Varus, Draven,etc will always be played less than Ezreal or Vayne because they have no way to get out of gap closers and they neither of them offer anything amazing, I mean, highest damage is probably Vayne any way. I'm sure people will say oh but Kogmaw is a great champ, yes Kog is an amazing champ but you need to have a babysitter, not suitable for when you're just playing solo que.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

11-16-2012

I think the crux of the lightbringer is to do two things:

* Counter tactical stealth
* Counter escaping champs - especially melee champs with blinks.
* Usually these two are related (IE Shaco).

I don't buy it, but I would if it was less of an anti-stealth item and more of an anti-escape item. A lot of melee champs have a "get out of fight with ranged character free" card unless that ranged character is Ashe or Vayne. An item that makes melee characters think before trying to one-shot the squishy ranged DPS would fill a similar role without being a silver bullet against stealth Champions.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-16-2012

SoBeNirvana, that's nice but it's really not the AD carrys job to go and "chase" champions, specially if he's alone in the jungle, sometimes it's better to just let that Shaco go then to try and kill him as most of the time it would either be a waste of time or you will just get killed. AD Carry in Dominion should always pretty much be hiding behind his team and follow every team fight. If you go in the jungle alone as an AD Carry 90% of the time you will just get killed and put your team in a 4v3 situation.

The main problem is, Zeal offers crit, MS and AS for cheaper price, PD then is even better, Lightbringer simply will not replace PD unless it offers Movement Speed.


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AbsolutePK

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I think it's a decent item, but I don't often play champions it meshes well with and it's an extreme niche item in my eyes. I got it sometimes in lower elo when there was a lot of Akali, Twitch, Eve, or Wukong but the only real AD Carry I play on Dominion is Ezreal and I hate auto attacking with him so the attack speed is just a wasted stat and I end up purely buying it for the reveal.


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