Lightbringer (OP updated)

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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

11-16-2012

If I get this its normally on Ez, but again, its one of those things where I have a hard time justifying buying a high price/no utility item with a standard build item to get a unique utility. I mean honestly I'd just replace recurve bow with stinger in the two instances where this scenario arises (LB and Kitae's) because then you at least get some cdr with it, something most carries have issues with itemizing, and most other's will end up over the cap with if they target build these.


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Das Strychnine

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Terrible item, it's not effective compared to Zeal/Phantom Dancer on AD carry due to the fact that it offers nothing but attack speed and low ad, it's expensive compared to a single Zeal. AD Carrys are really gold starved early/mid game because they can't farm for 30 minutes like in SR and as you would know, Bruisers and even AP carries have a much better mid game than AD carries who only start to shine late.

It would be really nice if you could maybe replace PD with this item, the thing that AD carries really need in dominion and are lacking apart from PD is Movement Speed, this is because as you know Bruisers in general have much higher movement speed then AD carries. It also doesn't help that most Bruisers nowadays have gap closers, all assassins have gap closers as well and CC.


What I'm getting at, this item will never replace Phantom Dancer because it has no movement speed so it's better to get a Zeal rather then this. There's a reason why Ezreal is the most played ADC, followed by Vayne and Corki and Caitlyn, they all have ways to disengage gap closers and kite.


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Let's talk about this item. How often is it purchased? How is its buildup? What would be the ramifications if it were removed?
I used to get it on every champion because jukes into bushes really bothered me.

Then I realized that it's pretty bad (will probably be better in S3 once PD gets destroyed). The only reason I'd get it is if I were facing a stealth-escaping champion like Wukong and LeBlanc and Shaco. The reality is that getting Oracle's is much better in those situations.

The damage is low, and the AS bonus isn't something champions need because it is so abundant in the form of steroid on the champion itself or in the many, many AS items. S3 seems to push that even more with so many items providing AS that most players will treat them like CDR items because of the hard cap.

Hurricane+Lighbringer will probably be OP on Ashe because she has no spell based AS boost to push her over the limit and 110% AS on her would be nice, but otherwise, Lightbringer is too situational to be worth the purchase.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-16-2012

I find it's very hard to get on the not really that good ADC. Some of he better ADC right now (Vayne, kog, kayle). can afford to get it because they really benefit from Attack speed. But most ADC do not benefit from AS that much. They prefer AD, Critical, movement and lifesteal. So they can't afford to spend so much slot space and gold on AS.

For example, Ashe needs infinity edge and Prospector blade for damage, and really needs phantom dancer because the movement speed and critical damage. At that point you must get lifesteal. And that point you need armor pen.
You see where this is going, you already got the 6 slots occupied.
There is no room for lightbringer, until it replaces the Damage item (infinity), the movespeed+critical (PD), the armor pen (Last whisper) or the lifesteal slot (Sanguine blade/executioner calling)

Sometimes when I face a ridiculous number of stealth heroes what I do is get sanguine blade first for damage and lifesteal and so ignore the infinity edge, I find it to be somewhat underwhelming though, many ADC strongly need infinity edge.


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Duelpower

Senior Member

11-16-2012

It is really good on vayne!

It does it's job well enough as it is.. I would like to point out that a better version would be an AD version of sweeper. I would trade in the passive for an active and better base stats on the item itself.


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risemix View Post
An item that should be bought most of the time, but rarely is. I don't see any reason to remove it. If anything, I would like to see Phantom Dancer become unavailable while this item is changed to take its place.

+X% attack speed
+X% critical strike chance
+X% movement speed
Your basic attacks grant vision of your target for 5 seconds.

The reason for this is that right now it competes with the same slot PD wants, but PD is so important to AD carries that Lightbringer feels like it comes at a large loss.

Maybe it isn't the best idea but it's something to consider?
Yes, if Lightbringer was basically PD but with vision, then it would be a good item. But isn't that a bit like saying, "If lead had the properties of titanium, it would be a really useful metal."


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Sauron

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I rarely get it, but I do agree it is underrated on ADCs. Most fights will involve at least some brush juking, and for Vayne who can lose sight of her target when she condemns them, it's very important. Against most targets, though, a standard ADC build without Lightbringer will be just fine.

It might see more popularity if it had a very small Hawk Shot-like active that could be used to scout a single brush at 900 range (but not reveal stealth) every minute or so.


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DevlJoe

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I find myself wanting to build it, but knowing that I'm gimping myself as an AD carry by not buying phantom dancer as my attack speed item.

If the current standard AD carry build wasn't so good I would buy it a lot more.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

11-16-2012

It's...attack speed, reveal, and a little AD? It was completely inferior to Sweeper when it came to vision (before the most recent change removed the spell vision passive)

I wouldn't get this on Ezreal (my main AD) right now, despite his superior synergy with it, and although I haven't looked on PBE yet, Zephyr seems like a way better ADC buy that also has a better buildpath (Stinger upgrade that doesn't suck? Yes please.) Sorry '~'.

I would be a lot more tempted to get it if one of the following was implemented:

A. It built from Zeal, to give it movespeed and crit (for scaling/actual competition with Zephyr, Statikk Shiv, Phantom Dancer, and Hurricane. However, to quote Shakespeare, "Uneven is the course. I like it not." I've heard Riot doesn't like items that are too similar to each other, and such a change would put Lightbringer dangerously close to all of those items.)
B. It had the reveal active present on Sweeper and Gez's Spectal Lantern, the best item on the Treeline and substitute for Wiggle's Lantern for Yi v. 3.
C. It had a tier 3 (or 4, if something else were included with a tier 3 nature [like a Vamp Scepter upgrade]) upgrade that gave it more power and/or a better version of its passive.
D. Its stats got reworked to be more relevant to S3 itemization paths, possibly in combination with some of the other effects listed above.

E. It were renamed Saul Ronitome's Eye. I would suspect that even live Blackfire Torch would be absolutely adored if it were named that.


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Argodis

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I play a lot of ranged DPS and I don't buy it on them. I'm squishy so I shouldn't be going first into the fog of war regardless of whether or not I can see the enemy. I may buy it if there is an Akali or Shaco in the game. Many AD carries have abilities that give vision anyway. Corki Q, MF E, Ashe E, etc.

If you're an AD Carry, you have to compare the item to PD and PD gives a carry everything they want except armor pen and AD.

I would take Lightbringer a lot more often if stacking AD instead of crit was a viable option. You don't have time to build stacks of Sanguine Blade when Jarvan and Wukong are smashing on you.

I wouldn't care if it was removed but I think some of the new items could potentially work well with with it such as Hurricane.


But then again, it looks like Zephyr is better than Lightbringer if I'm looking for an alternative to the typical IE/PD build.

For reference:
Zephyr
Item Cost: 2450
Recipe Cost: 1200
+20 Attack Damage +50% Attack Speed +10% Movement Speed +10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE Passive - Tenacity: The duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, silences, blinds and immobilizes are reduced by 35%.


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