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nami feels very unresponsive.

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E0L

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Movement speed
really low move speed like a fish out of water makes it really hard for her to position and land her Q which has a huge delay and even slower animation. as a support this should be very fluid i find myself having to over shoot alot to land this attack.

Her Q animation
while i realize its powerful and needs a handicap this is just too much. id much rather see it with a scaling stun time and fast animation then a slow animation with a long stun time.

mana costs
are insane.. especially on her heal i do realize it comes with alot of free damage but its way too high for the little amount of healing it actually does. the healing base values need to be ramped up if your going to keep her with these mana costs. you cast a sequence of 4 spells and she is out of mana. this is far too quick even building mana regen items.

her W heal is pathetic yes this spell does healing AND damage but my god is the healing low especially late game. i wouldnt make a big deal out of it if the support item builds gave some AP to take advantage of.

confusing item choices note: this is just some theory crafting
it looks like the pure gp/5 route is dead, it seems the goal is now to force supports to build part dmg and 1 or 2 support items. with gold sinks being much higher on all of the completed and new aura items and the new pick pocket mastery the expectation seems to be for supports to get more aggressive. this of course will hugely impact the old style of full time ward bot and possibly making the burden of playing support much harder as there will be less time to focus on the other lanes having to duel and fight for river vision


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Caeyl

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I have to say I disagree with everything you have discussed. I'm sorry, but I think Nami has been released with everything seemingly balanced and pretty much perfect so far. Comparing to Zed's rather confusing release to the PBE, this is a great improvement.

Her Q is very tricky to pull off because of the rather slow travel time and the short AoE range, so the trade-off of damage and disable is very good and satisfying when you land it.

Her W heal is not pathetic. Even so, you have to take into account it bounces between ally-enemy-ally, or vice versa depending on who you cast it on first. It's basically like a Sona heal, but better because it heals extra, and it also damages in one cast.

I'm surprised you didn't mention her E, because that's what I feel is the least satisfying skill, even though it's still good. It combos well with her Q and W, allowing time to deal extra damage, or wait for cooldowns. Either that, or cast it on an AD ranged ahead of you who is attacking them so you can catch up and land a nice combo.

The item choices will be confusing because of the whole new addition of new items and reworked current items. But once you know what does what, you'll know exactly what to build for Nami. For me, I feel a mixture between cooldown reduction, mana regen, and ability power is a good start. Try Philosopher's Stone to begin with, then Tears of Goddess, and yeah you should be fine with whatever way you want to branch out from there.

If mana costs are still too much for you, try the 13 mana regen/5 rune page. Helps a lot with champions such as Sona.

But anyway to sum it up, Nami is a really solid champion. All of her skills make sense and work well with each other. The only thing that everyone will have a bit of trouble with is getting around the massively open item choices.


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E0L

Senior Member

11-16-2012

her W is very problematic you need to have your partner commits 100% to a fight if he tried to poke and you try to heal the dmg you only get 1 bounce at 2 bounces its still bad it heals for less then soraka whose heal also grants armor. and it has a longer cooldown then sona whose heal is comparable to the one bounce but also grants armor mr

so your stuck with a spell that the majority of the time fails to bounce for the 2nd heal and has a longer cool down with no defensive steroid. as a heal this spell is very inconsistent. you get half as much healing with no loss mitigation

her E is an AS steroid with a slow you use it when your DPS commits to do dmg the problem is as a healer you want to be doing some passive healing when stray pokes catch your partner to make sure hes not fighting with a handicap. this is unfeasible with nami because of the before hand mentioned and if you try you will have no mana for E


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Nemix

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Sounds like you want an OP support upon release then nerfed later on.

I can't try her cause she on PBE but from LOL Wiki stats her W's mana cost is not that bad, 60 at level 1 and she starts with 305 mana pool that's more than Soraka's 240 mana pool start and less cost than Soraka's Astral Blessing which cost 80.

As for her Q maybe there will be animation fixes in the upcoming weeks before release.

ATM, I'm unsure on how to comment on her E but if used correctly it can be very useful situations when your carry commits since it's also pops her passive (movement speed) on your carry, maybe a buff in damage would help it a bit from 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+20% AP) to 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+20% AP).


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E0L

Senior Member

11-16-2012

well i have tried her on pbe so please dont critisize until you actually try her.

i dont want an op champ i want one that is reliable. her heal is very unreliable because unlike other healers it has pre conditions and no dmg mitigation . if it was a sona heal it would be 100 heals and 20 armor so if your target gets hurt she has 20 of those hit points protected.

nami offers none of that its just raw health in small parts and most of the time its not the full amount of raw heals so she actually has less healing potential then all the healers because she has no defense steroid or shield to bubble any dmg she tries to undo

normally you stagger the amount of healing when it has defenses added to it like sona and soraka. but she doesnt so she should actually heal for more because its raw unprotected heals. thats the normal logical and accepted method. but in this case she actually heals for less then sona and far less then soraka who has a armor steroid. so to put it into comparison soraka would have a heal for 120 while nami has a heal for 100.

this is overly simplified but thats the gist of how it works. naked heals are always over tuned because they get burned right down again.

the other thing is that her heal is a much longer cooldown and higher mana cost so her spell cost efficiency is much lower too. so you get less overall heal for more of your mana. how is this a good thing? changing this is obvious by how much i did not say but its needed. so dont confuse my insight for some generic demand for OP heals


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DisasterAverted

Member

11-16-2012

180 mana combined for her 3 non-ult spells(each at lvl 1, at lvl 18 her total combined mana cost including ulti is 460) and you say her mana costs are high? Let's compare -- the most comparable thing to her Q among supports is probably janna Q, which costs 90 mana level 1, whereas her Q costs 65 mana. The most comparable thing to her W is probably soraka W (i realize soraka W gives bonus armor and her W does damage, but I can't think of anything else to compare it to) -- soraka's costs more mana at every level (80 to 60 lvl 1, 110 to 75 lvl 2, 140 to 90 lvl 3, 170 to 105 lvl 4, 200 to 120 lvl 5). Her E is fairly unique, but other steroids cost comparable mana and don't give a slow. All that being said, I can't agree with you on the mana problems.

Another issue you raised is move speed. After taking into account the bonus movespeed every champion is getting with this patch (due to reducing move speed from boots), her base MS is still higher than lulu's, equal to soraka's, higher than sona's, and equal to janna's (I realize janna has her passive). In addition, her passive gives bonus MS to any allied champion she uses one of her abilities on, so potentially her MS could be 380 after using 1 ability on herself (assuming it doesn't stack that's as high as it could be without boots, if it does stack then it could be 430).

Her ultimate has stupidly long range, she has absurd CC, she has a heal (fairly small, but not unnoticeable), she has reasonable mana costs, and she has average to high base movement speed for a support. Based on your complaints you were expecting something stupidly OP. Oh, and to address your complaint about her W -- it's very easy to get 2 hits with it, and with simply 2 hits you get a greater gain in HP relative to your opponent (at level 1 it's 50 hp healed 50 damage dealt, for a net of 100) than soraka heal (at level 1 it heals for 70) for less mana(see above) and on a cooldown that is less than half as long(soraka W cd is 20, her W is 9).


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PeachyHime

Member

11-16-2012

I find Nami to be a weird mix of Harass/Sustain but not as good as Sona/Soraka in the respected aspect.

Her Q is her main harass tool, but it has an extremely long cd, but it makes sense for what it is. If she misses the Q expect to be harassed by the enemy adc/support. You can't do anything about it for 15 seconds. It doesn't help she has a short AA range.

Her W is horrible, if you intend on putting more than 1 point in it, you will constantly be out of mana and the heal and damage is not even that great.

Her E is more for helping in trades duels etc. it's good for what it does. I find it slowly dies off as your team starts getting the bulk of their damage.

Her R is great in the lane phase and later for TF.

She is 'ok' for what she brings, but I feel there are just better options.


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ScarletDeviI

Senior Member

11-16-2012

GUISE

She isn't meant to heal for very much, that's the point. It's meant to be a in-combat heal, not something you use over the course of laning phase to heal up your laning partner.


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vats3

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
E0L:
well i have tried her on pbe so please dont critisize until you actually try her.

i dont want an op champ i want one that is reliable. her heal is very unreliable because unlike other healers it has pre conditions and no dmg mitigation . if it was a sona heal it would be 100 heals and 20 armor so if your target gets hurt she has 20 of those hit points protected.

nami offers none of that its just raw health in small parts and most of the time its not the full amount of raw heals so she actually has less healing potential then all the healers because she has no defense steroid or shield to bubble any dmg she tries to undo

normally you stagger the amount of healing when it has defenses added to it like sona and soraka. but she doesnt so she should actually heal for more because its raw unprotected heals. thats the normal logical and accepted method. but in this case she actually heals for less then sona and far less then soraka who has a armor steroid. so to put it into comparison soraka would have a heal for 120 while nami has a heal for 100.

this is overly simplified but thats the gist of how it works. naked heals are always over tuned because they get burned right down again.

the other thing is that her heal is a much longer cooldown and higher mana cost so her spell cost efficiency is much lower too. so you get less overall heal for more of your mana. how is this a good thing? changing this is obvious by how much i did not say but its needed. so dont confuse my insight for some generic demand for OP heals

Often people who are not on the server can be just as informed if not better informed then the people on the server is they are watching carefully. in example i am not part of the PBE but i how ever do know that when you call her heal a "naked heal" that is not completely true, it also grants movement speed because of her passive so it would be better compared to kayles heal "Heal: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+0.35 per ability power)" at about the same mana but a 15 second cd while nami has "Heal per Bounce: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+0.3 per ability power)" witch bounces and gives more movement speed it cant heal one person twice but unlike kayles heal it becomes very useful and a good source of damage in team fights as well as a good heal

but what would i know im not on the PBE servers


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KBloodslear

Member

11-16-2012

I'm not sure what to think of her heal yet, as I didn't have much chance to use it during the laning phase of the one co-op game I played her.

In team fights, it seems alright - not so much for the heal / damage, but for proc'ing your passive on multiple allies.

I'd wager that her W isn't meant to provide heavy sustain for your ADC / allies, because she seems like a ranged CC support with this minor sustain in her W.

I don't want Nami to obsolete existing supports by having a stronger heal, in addition to her current kit.

Having said that, I haven't experimented much with the new items yet, so perhaps there's a way to augment or complement her W with heals / regen / shields from items.

Suggestions:
- I'd like to see her slow effect removed from her ult (which seems really strong, given the width and length of the AoE + double CC).

- I feel like her W would be more compelling if it had some sort of effect (besides damage) when it hit an enemy. It would make the decision re: who to cast your W on initially more interesting, since right now, casting it on an ally allows you to proc your passive more frequently, whereas casting it first on an enemy only does a bit of damage. Not sure what sort of proc would be fair and interesting, given how much CC Nami already has.

- Also, another idea of interest would be to increase the effects of her W on each subsequent bounce.


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