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AD Caster Itemization?

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Zerosandones

Member

11-16-2012

I remember them mentioning that they wanted to give AD casters items that would help overcome the current gaps, but I don't see any on the PBE. Not a single AD/SV item in SR that doesn't have AP on it. Am I missing something?


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IS130c917366de0182fa8f3

Senior Member

11-16-2012

well u are missing the new black cleaver for one


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Zerosandones

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
schneetzel:
well u are missing the new black cleaver for one


Except I specifically pointed to Attack Damage/Spell Vamp, since the issue is lack of sustain, especially in the jungle.....


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Amzin

Recruiter

11-16-2012

Black Cleaver is sometimes a good AD Caster item, but it's worse than Last Whisper if you don't need to help out ADs on your team. The AD Caster stats are definitely not much different than they were in Season 2. The new manamune upgrade MAYBE, but even that's only for mana ADcasters, it's useless on ones like Zed. Van Damme's Pillager on TT is an example of a nice ADCaster item, and it's tied to HoG so probably not going to see SR play, sadly.

Zephyr almost looks like one, except it has superfluous stats as well. I am excited about the new melee carry items (even though 3 of them are all in the top 5 most expensive items in the game), but bummed out not to see the ADCaster ones actually existing. Will have to see what kind of builds people come up with obviously, but at first blush it looks basically the same as before.


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vats3

Senior Member

11-16-2012

i was looking for these items too other then BC i dont know of any other items ment just for ad casters


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Space Lizard

Senior Member

11-16-2012

That's because SV is better on bruisers than it is on most AD Casters. SV as a stat is good for sustained damage dealers, because all burst damage dealers care about is using their entire combo. There are some sustained damage AD Casters, like there are some sustained damage AP ones, but there are significantly more sustained damage bruisers who benefit just as much as AD Casters do. More, in fact, because they build tankier, so what you end up with are bruisers that are spellvamp sustaining all the damage other classes throw at them after surviving their initial burst (because, you know, they're bruisers.)

AD Casters are generally assassins. Not always, Riven and Garen are more bruisery and Urgot is his own strange hybrid class, but as for the most part AD Casters items have to be created with the assassins in mind. Riven and Garen, The more bruisery AD Casters have a larger item pool to select with as well, Maw is a great item on them, for example, so they don't necessarily need an AD Caster item catered towards themselves. Especially not at the expense of other AD Casters, since the bruisery AD Casters are already pretty viable and don't need the leg up.

Edit: One other point I feel needs to be made. Lack of early sustain is not an issue for AD Casters since they have AD scaling and benefit from lifesteal. Bloodthirster and Hydra are both great on AD Casters and both offer lifesteal, building out of a vamp scepter which now contains AD. Take advantage of that.


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NoGoodInGoodbye

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Reygekan:
That's because SV is better on bruisers than it is on most AD Casters. SV as a stat is good for sustained damage dealers, because all burst damage dealers care about is using their entire combo. There are some sustained damage AD Casters, like there are some sustained damage AP ones, but there are significantly more sustained damage bruisers who benefit just as much as AD Casters do. More, in fact, because they build tankier, so what you end up with are bruisers that are spellvamp sustaining all the damage other classes throw at them after surviving their initial burst (because, you know, they're bruisers.)

AD Casters are generally assassins. Not always, Riven and Garen are more bruisery and Urgot is his own strange hybrid class, but as for the most part AD Casters items have to be created with the assassins in mind. Riven and Garen, The more bruisery AD Casters have a larger item pool to select with as well, Maw is a great item on them, for example, so they don't necessarily need an AD Caster item catered towards themselves. Especially not at the expense of other AD Casters, since the bruisery AD Casters are already pretty viable and don't need the leg up.

Edit: One other point I feel needs to be made. Lack of early sustain is not an issue for AD Casters since they have AD scaling and benefit from lifesteal. Bloodthirster and Hydra are both great on AD Casters and both offer lifesteal, building out of a vamp scepter which now contains AD. Take advantage of that.


This guy has it 100% correct. While I'd love SV on AD caster items Tanky AD's will benefit far more as they can stay in the fight and sustain of continued damage.

The new SotD is also quite a good AD caster item despite it's lack of AD It gives 100% crit and AS which allows you to do the damage of 6 attacks in the time you would have done between 2-3 AND it scales off that lifesteal you have from BT and Hydra.

Edit: That being said it would be nice if SotD was pickaxe+recurve so assassins could take advantage of the item for more than just the active.


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Crown2142

Member

11-16-2012

Need something with attack damage and spell vamp with no ap on it


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Varxtis

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Reygekan:
That's because SV is better on bruisers than it is on most AD Casters. SV as a stat is good for sustained damage dealers, because all burst damage dealers care about is using their entire combo. There are some sustained damage AD Casters, like there are some sustained damage AP ones, but there are significantly more sustained damage bruisers who benefit just as much as AD Casters do. More, in fact, because they build tankier, so what you end up with are bruisers that are spellvamp sustaining all the damage other classes throw at them after surviving their initial burst (because, you know, they're bruisers.)

AD Casters are generally assassins. Not always, Riven and Garen are more bruisery and Urgot is his own strange hybrid class, but as for the most part AD Casters items have to be created with the assassins in mind. Riven and Garen, The more bruisery AD Casters have a larger item pool to select with as well, Maw is a great item on them, for example, so they don't necessarily need an AD Caster item catered towards themselves. Especially not at the expense of other AD Casters, since the bruisery AD Casters are already pretty viable and don't need the leg up.

Edit: One other point I feel needs to be made. Lack of early sustain is not an issue for AD Casters since they have AD scaling and benefit from lifesteal. Bloodthirster and Hydra are both great on AD Casters and both offer lifesteal, building out of a vamp scepter which now contains AD. Take advantage of that.


Just because the skills have ad scaling or ad damage does not mean it works off lifesteal (unless the spell applies on-hit effects). In other words, no lifesteal doesn't benefit ad casters much because they cast more than they auto attack, and thus is why a spell vamp item would provide much more use for them than more lifesteal items.


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Please correct me if I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that AD casters don't really use their AA much? For example if I play Zed I only really care about landing one AA for the passive proc, I certainly wouldn't build AS items on him.

So why are people talking about building BT and Hydra for the lifesteal? I find both items pointless on an AD caster. I'm not gunna stand and AA anyone for the lifesteal and splash, the only nice thing they have is a high AD value. Otherwise they're pointless.

As an AD caster I was under the impression what you usually want to have access too is high CDR, AD, arm pen and some spell vamp. All things which benefit using your skills, disregarding your AA's.

Personally the only AD caster items I'm seeing are the new Black Cleaver and for me the QSS upgrade is very handy too.


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