Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Spirit Stone needs a buff.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xyltin

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Mdaha:
Honestly, 20% early game would make it worth it. At 100 AD it would break even, that means at 75 AD where a lot of people would be close to when able to upgrade it, their spells would have to do 250 damage from non auto attacks to break even(using .7 attack speed over 10 seconds).


With 15 and 20% i meant the 15% on spirit stone and the 20% on the upgraded items.

20% on spirit stone would make it strong enough, but what would be next? 25% on the upgrades? Then K'Z would make 1600+ dmg on drake with one Q to finish him. Also other champs would have a way too easy farm in the jungle mid and late game.

That's why i thought that they should let 5 true dmg stay on spirit stone and remove that with the upgrades.

Machete: 10 true + 10%
Spirit stone: 5 true + 15%
Upgrades of Spirit stone: 0 true + 20%

Madreds: 20% for 300 + 5%
Wriggles: 20% for 450 + 0%

This would allow people to upgrade without any second thoughts most of the time.
You may lose some dmg around lvl 4-6 (when you go B for the first time and you upgrade instantly), but even then, the difference would be pretty minor.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Xyltin:
With 15 and 20% i meant the 15% on spirit stone and the 20% on the upgraded items.

20% on spirit stone would make it strong enough, but what would be next? 25% on the upgrades? Then K'Z would make 1600+ dmg on drake with one Q to finish him. Also other champs would have a way too easy farm in the jungle mid and late game.

That's why i thought that they should let 5 true dmg stay on spirit stone and remove that with the upgrades.

Machete: 10 true + 10%
Spirit stone: 5 true + 15%
Upgrades of Spirit stone: 0 true + 20%

Madreds: 20% for 300 + 5%
Wriggles: 20% for 450 + 0%

This would allow people to upgrade without any second thoughts most of the time.
You may lose some dmg around lvl 4-6 (when you go B for the first time and you upgrade instantly), but even then, the difference would be pretty minor.


What I'm suggesting is

Machete: 10 True + 10%
Spirit Stone: 0 True + 20%
Upgrades : 0 True + 20% as well

For the upgrades you are paying for additional stats, not more jungle power, you already have great jungle power from Spirit stone, now you want to upgrade it so it has some relevance mid to late game.

As for Madred's and Wriggles, the should keep the % at 10 and get rid of the RNG proc and add a Flat true damage on Auto attack. So Say

Machete: 10 True + 10%
Madred's: 30 True + 10%
Wriggle's: 75 True + 10%

Numbers obviously would need to be balanced. The reason why I think Wriggle's needs to be higher is because those mobs end up getting a lot of health.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Runix

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I agree. The Stone is obviously intended for tanky caster junglers; but it just doesn't provide enough of a boost to help with doing single target damage. Nautilus is the most obvious example; I almost always build Madred's on him just because he clears so much faster with it, otherwise he ends up hacking away at the Golem or the Lizard for what seems like forever. If the intended itemization path for tanky caster junglers isn't going to have an on-hit effect, there needs to be a significant damage boost to make up the difference.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Goguma XO

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Why can't the 10 true damage stay at all levels of Spirit Stone's upgrade path? Just keep the 10 true dmg on AA and tweak the % as needed, problem solved.

BTW, really liking Mdaha's suggestion on making Wriggle's upgrade path focus on big AA true dmg in lieu of the proc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Runix:
I agree. The Stone is obviously intended for tanky caster junglers; but it just doesn't provide enough of a boost to help with doing single target damage. Nautilus is the most obvious example; I almost always build Madred's on him just because he clears so much faster with it, otherwise he ends up hacking away at the Golem or the Lizard for what seems like forever. If the intended itemization path for tanky caster junglers isn't going to have an on-hit effect, there needs to be a significant damage boost to make up the difference.


My biggest concern is that the upgrades are really good for a lot of junglers. I rather get spirit stone on Warwick then Madred's. I might just get both actually. But as of now Spirit Stone isn't worth it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xyltin

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Mdaha:
What I'm suggesting is

Machete: 10 True + 10%
Spirit Stone: 0 True + 20%
Upgrades : 0 True + 20% as well

For the upgrades you are paying for additional stats, not more jungle power, you already have great jungle power from Spirit stone, now you want to upgrade it so it has some relevance mid to late game.

As for Madred's and Wriggles, the should keep the % at 10 and get rid of the RNG proc and add a Flat true damage on Auto attack. So Say

Machete: 10 True + 10%
Madred's: 30 True + 10%
Wriggle's: 75 True + 10%

Numbers obviously would need to be balanced. The reason why I think Wriggle's needs to be higher is because those mobs end up getting a lot of health.


Also a good way to solve the problem.
Now we can let Riot do the math and wait if they will take any of these solutions, or take another one (or none, what i don't hope).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mawootad

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Statikk:
You aren't taking into account the extra 5% damage amp to your abilities (Passive, W, E) as well.

I know there's a math-y crossover point at which you need to pass in order for Spirit Stone to be higher damage in some cases due to the loss of the Rend passive. This isn't ideal, but we acknowledged this and accepted that players can opt to leave the Hunter's Machete in their inventory in order to go for other items until they feel comfortable that upgrading Spirit Stone would be a for-sure damage increase.


Instead of making it hard to figure out, why not leave the autoattack damage on spirit stone and have the tier 3 upgrades lose the bonus damage instead (maybe with the tradeoff that you get less damage amp on spirit stone)? At the point that you get one of the tier three items its absence wont be missed too much and removing the issues where you have to guesstimate whether or not spirit stone is a good choice now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Mawootad:
Instead of making it hard to figure out, why not leave the autoattack damage on spirit stone and have the tier 3 upgrades lose the bonus damage instead (maybe with the tradeoff that you get less damage amp on spirit stone)? At the point that you get one of the tier three items its absence wont be missed too much and removing the issues where you have to guesstimate whether or not spirit stone is a good choice now.


Agreed, I can't think of a single instance where getting an item or upgrading one makes you LOSE damage. This should never need to be a thing we have to think about. It should be clear cut, if I'm paying gold, I get more stuff, if it isn't optimal then that is my fault, but if I'm losing stats then that is the design's fault and the definition of a noob trap.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mdaha

Member

11-16-2012

Still wanting Statikk to come back to finish this thread!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vivi R66

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Bump for sake of buff needed!