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Less Gold in New Jungle

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Influence Point

Master Recruiter

11-16-2012

Well i just got into the jungler role and i liked picking less viable junglers such as Karthus because it was funny.

However now i need to stick with boring champs like Olaf if i even want to clear the jungle on the first run without recalling.


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Rombuq

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Not sure if this has been said or not (or even if it will be read on this page) however, I highly suggest getting the new avarice blade on just about any non-AP jungler. Hell, even tanks can use avarice now to build into Atma's late game, or just sell the damn thing at 30 minutes when your gold income is +1,500 gold...
Avarice blade will now give extra gold/10 but also "Greed" - Greed gives an extra 2 gold/kill - clearing out a full jungle is 15 mobs, 30g (then backtrack wraiths+wolves again for another 7, 14g) plus the static gold/10 that you get...

Just because it may "SEEM" that you receive less money, there are many more ways to increase your gold income now - laning or jungling.


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Vrakus

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
squidbert:
Does this even prevent lvl 2 ganks? Is the XP from Wolves and Blue not enough enough XP for level 2? I don't see how this stops level 2 ganks unless the damage you take from wolves and blue is considerably more. Or are level 2 ganks not reasonable anymore because you can't start boots?


You can gank at lvl 2 w/ boots 3, but you'll need more help on blue or red and will be at lower HP due to the lack of leashing. You'll probably also have to recall and buy more pots, and have a slower time clearing the rest of the jungle. And, if you're against someone like WW/Fiddle with stupid sustain in the new jungle, they should immediately go steal your other buff when you show up to gank lvl 2.


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Vrakus

Junior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Rombuq:
Not sure if this has been said or not (or even if it will be read on this page) however, I highly suggest getting the new avarice blade on just about any non-AP jungler. Hell, even tanks can use avarice now to build into Atma's late game, or just sell the damn thing at 30 minutes when your gold income is +1,500 gold...
Avarice blade will now give extra gold/10 but also "Greed" - Greed gives an extra 2 gold/kill - clearing out a full jungle is 15 mobs, 30g (then backtrack wraiths+wolves again for another 7, 14g) plus the static gold/10 that you get...

Just because it may "SEEM" that you receive less money, there are many more ways to increase your gold income now - laning or jungling.


But crit is not a stat a lot of junglers want. And one of Riot's stated goals was to get away from gp10 support junglers. If the only way to stay even with live/lane gold is still to go dual gp10, what did they accomplish by changing the jungle? A few people will still be able to gank lvl 2. Very few will be able to gank at lvl 4 without recalling. So, the jungler is even further behind on gold than they were on live because they can't gank nearly as early and have a harder jungle giving even less gold, relative to the lanes.

HoG removal and philo nerf means a gp10 rush jungler is even weaker on PBE than live (replace HoG with Avarice or Kage, but you've lost 200 hp and have much less hp regen in exchange for minor dps stats).

I'm also fairly certain that getting a sight stone will be common for junglers. What jungler doesn't spend 700+g on wards? That means yet another item 'required' for jungling and an item slot taken up. So, the jungler is ~2100g behind the lanes in terms of useful items, if they go sight stone + 2 weaker gp10s. That means ganks will be even less successful than they currently are.


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Scrulox

Senior Member

11-16-2012

So that's why I have noticed my income as a jungler has dropped significantly from live. That plus the removal of HoG, overall jungler's income is gonna drop by a lot. Why punish people for jungling?


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BeefPudding

Senior Member

11-16-2012

because i guess they want lane phase to be less affected by snowball jungle ganks^


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Jungle Rammus

Senior Member

11-16-2012

ugg.... how does Rammus Fair in the new Jungle anyone tested him yet ?? as it is now he has pretty slow jungle times... and relies on pots to survive I can only imagine what he will be like after this patch hits official server..


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Lady Mai

Senior Member

11-16-2012

I still don't see the reasoning behind this. If you want to keep junglers in the jungle to farm in the early game, shouldn't the creeps be worth more gold? A champion kill takes less time and earns more gold. Won't junglers be more likely to try to gank?


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Statikk:
We intend for the first clear to be both slower and more difficult (these 2 often go hand in hand).

We don't intend for the overall first clear's gold to be much less than it was before even if it is taking longer.

At the end of the day, we're looking to gauge the impact and power level junglers have on the early game overall not necessarily just gold flow.


I thought the point of the new jungle was to increase gold gained, not to keep it the same. Longer clear for same gold just means that fewer mids will be stealing wraiths and that fewer junglers will be viable.


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Reiver

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Statikk:
We intend for the first clear to be both slower and more difficult (these 2 often go hand in hand).

We don't intend for the overall first clear's gold to be much less than it was before even if it is taking longer.

At the end of the day, we're looking to gauge the impact and power level junglers have on the early game overall not necessarily just gold flow.


Statikk, even if you increase the ambient gold, you're still decreasing the value of actually clearing the jungle, while raising the difficulty of it. If anything your changes discourage junglers from actually taking the time to kill the more difficult monsters with less reward, and further encouraging them to simply grab GP5 items and simply roam the map ganking/warding/etc.

I see no reason for me to farm the jungle when it's worth less gold to actually farm it (and farming it was already worth **** for gold) and is more difficult to farm.