@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

First Riot Post
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erosumikun

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Judgement awaits those who defy the path of ero. Atone for your sins feminist :3

PS : LONG LIVE SEXY <3


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Rhiljeryne

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
Les...Poissons...


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LouisLeGros

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by fLUORESC3NT View Post
If you want girls covered up, go live in Afghanistan or Iran for a couple months, see how great it works out for the women there.
We want more Lux, Diana, Vayne, Leona...



HERP DERP GOTO IRAN IF YOU WANT EVERY PAIR OF BOOBS COVERED IN A BURQA YOU FEMITARD


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Cilentior

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
People keep holding up Ariel as some paragon of mermaid-dom and also a completely awesome female character.

Ariel is a girl who runs away from a secure home environment and gives up her voice for a guy she hasn't even spoken to once. It sends the message to little girls that "oh, you don't need to talk - just look good!" Holding Ariel up as an example of why Nami isn't sexualized doesn't work too well.
I'm not holding up Ariel as a paragon, I'm merely referencing her because it came to my attention and was making a comparison between her and Nami. I was in no way comparing who they are as women together, nor the message they send to people, but rather how they both illustrate mermaids in general, and why Nami's character model is perfectly fine the way it is.

Also if I remember correctly, Ariel, a 15 year old girl, saved the prince from drowning. So because she got crush on the prince, and because she is a teenager, she made a rash decision to try and get to know her crush. Now I don't know about you, but the first thing I notice about a person is how they look. Call me shallow sure, but I can't know instantly by looking at a person for the first time if they are humorous, or brilliant, or quiet, or social, or belligerent, or even cruel. I know nothing about them other than how they look, so I'll walk over and try to get to know them better. I don't need to have talked to them first to want to get to know them, and I think that's what Ariel was trying to do.
On a related note, she tries to get the prince to love her because of her actions, even though she has no voice. She is competing with Ursula, who uses Ariel voice to seduce the prince, for his love so she's not just "trying to look good", she wants him to like her for who she is. "oh, you don't need to talk - just look good!" Is akin to saying mute people can't ever have love unless they look good.


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Daykon

Junior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixia View Post
Exactly, they want to appeal to the major audiences. Emphasis on that s. There is more than one audience. But when you only make things to appeal to one audience, the rest become disenfranchised and avoid your product, leading to the perception that only one audience plays, and thus only one audience should be catered to. On the contrary, bringing in more variety of champions though would bring in a wider audience, appeal to more people, make more money, etc.

Also, seriously, everybody who says 'who cares?', you do not belong in this debate. If you don't care about the appearance, then you should be buying the champs based on mechanics alone, and in that case, there's no reason not to let people who DO care have a wider variety of selection in terms of appearances to choose from. Afterall, YOU don't care, so you'll buy the champion anyways so long as it has a fun kit. You have nothing to lose or gain either way from a larger or smaller variety of champions aesthetics.
Off-Topic
To the first part, you are describing the mechanics of democracy in which i assume we all live

To the second part, i do believe that everyone belongs to the dicussion, some care for appearences,some do not. Also as i stated, there is a wide variety of champions, i stated that there were 35 female champs, this included female semi-monsters and females. There are other 72 champs who are either male or monsters, that is 67% of champs are not females. So there is a huge variety of champions to chose from in my opinion.

PS Dont take this post the hard way, just stating my opinion in some aspects of this discussion. I do not, by any means, mean to criticize your opinion on the topic. Also the matter most people are dicussing now are completely irrelevant to the OP. Also this thred is not an argument anymore, people are just fighting to impose their ideas over others


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Juggernaut1337

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timosha View Post
A little bit childish to distract people from the issue with a post like that, Parrotguy. I don't think there's much to add to the discussion - the artists just need to decide whether their inspirations take a backseat to teenage masturbation fantasies or not. If they do, I guess it's their game and they can do whatever they like with it.

Another consideration is this: Perhaps artists enjoy the female form enough to depict it by choice other than to drive sales with boobs.


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Imalia

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablosangelis View Post
While I am not intimately familiar with either game, I feel your examples don't well serve your cause here.

In the case of Tomb Raider especially, you have a case where Misogyny is clearly being portrayed in a negative light: this is an assumption, as I haven't played the game, but I think its a fair assumption. If anything, it's bringing to light the fact that evil people will torture someone (man or woman), and that torture, particularly for women, if often sexual in nature. Unless the portrayal of it is somehow twisted into a positive thing, it's portraying awful treatment of a female character as negative. Admittedly, using sexualized torture to move a plot line is disturbing... but torture to advance a plot line or character development is not uncommon, with both female and male victims.

I can't comment on the Metroid case as I don't know the circumstances, although I'd imagine the individual in question had some power over her--otherwise it doesn't make sense. In that case, you have a negative figure with power over a hero character that is behaving in a negative fashion towards the hero for some purpose.

I guess my point is that if you want female heroes... you need Misogyny to move the plot--because plots where nobody is against the hero are usually not that interesting. The difference seems to be that when a villain hurts/tortures/victimizes a female hero, its misogyny, but when its a male hero... its expected, and not misandry.

I respect and understand that portrayal of debasing and vile behavior against women is inherently negative--but its necessary to have a mature story line with a female protagonist. Otherwise, we'd still be having the argument about having female heroes.

If anything, the more open portrayal of misogyny in video games could be seen as a move towards equal treatment within the media. I believe instances where the behavior is more subtle are, in fact, more problematic--i.e. the prevalence of female characters in support roles throughout RPGs.

Riot, where's Angus the Manly Support?

TL,DR: Misogyny, while terrible, is necessary for a mature plot line with a female hero. It could simply be seen as equal treatment of male and female heroes, as male heroes have been hated/tortured by the villain in media for millenia.
See page 85 for additional commentary--in proper context the examples were valid--I stand by my arguments here though.
Responding to this completely derails the original topic and I'm kind of loathe to go there but suffice to say, I don't quite agree with your thesis in general and the examples I gave don't quite support it in the way you think they do. The reason I brought up Tomb Raider is because the misogyny is played out in a more systemic fashion. Instead of the previous Tomb Raider games where you as the player are taking control of a strong female action hero, the creators of this new game explicitly tell you that you're not Lara Croft, they've said so in developer interviews. You're her 'protector' and you want to 'keep bad things from happening to her'. They literally took all of her free agency away and the game is just her being tortured unless you the player save her and lead her out of terrible but somehow almost sexy peril because she can't do it herself.

In the Metroid M example, your superior is not in any form portrayed as a negative person. In fact, Samus' personality is subsumed in a kind of creepy to me father figure worship of the man and again, she goes from being a badass power suited action hero in previous games to somebody who does not have the free agency to decide for herself whether or not she should use a vital piece of survival gear that she has in hand in an appropriate situation unless she gets his approval.

That kind of misogyny I really could do without in video games because it enforces and normalizes the same sort of thing you hinted at with your females are only supports line.


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hester

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
50 pages.. no way I can read every one of these posts. To sum up though, despite what you may think, I am not the single point of failure in a scenario where a busty lady makes it through our pipeline. I'm here to be one of many voices that chimes in when appropriate. Can I flip a table or two? Absolutely, if I deem it unnecessary. I really wasn't too terribly concerned about Nami because, well, I think she's a cool design.

Did I notice the ruffles revealing some fish flesh? Yeah, I saw it months ago. Did I think it was particularly a good idea to poo-poo the design when it was on its way, when it was gathering momentum, and when it was being passionately worked on by the artist? Hell no. This will be this particular artist's first champion ever in the game. It's her show in that regard. I didn't find the cleavage to be a monumental red flag.

When I saw the concept I was like.. look at this stuff, isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think this concept's complete? Wouldn't you think she's the girl, the girl that has, everything? Look at those frills, how they unfold. How many wonders can one mermaid hold? Looking around here you think, sure, she's got everything. She's got flippers and scepters a plenty. She's got dashes and splashes galore. You want complementary curves? She's got twenty. But who cares, no big deal, she wants more.

She wants to be where the players are, she wants to see, wants to see them fighting, thinking inside of those, what do you call them? Oh, brains! Flipping to mid you don't get to far. Supports are required for healing, casting, strolling along on that.. what's that word again? Lane! Up where they toss, up where they stun, up where they lane all day in the sun, wandering free, wished she could be, part of that role.

What would she pay, if she could play, out of those waters? What sort of gift, would let her lift, up to the game? Betcha in the rift, they get the drift, that they appreciate their healers. Crowd controllers, supporting rollers, ready to sustain, and ready to help with Carry's job. Lock up the gankers and get some assists. What's a Baron, and how does it, what's the word? Buff! When's it enough? Wouldn't they love, love to play some support up above?

Out of the sea.

Wished she could be.

Part of that roll.



..tune in next time when I explain our champion creation process akin to how the mice put together Cinderella's dress.
Epic Win.


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Alessandra

Member

11-17-2012

all the lonely nerds need their boob fix i guess


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Onion the Fried

Senior Member

11-17-2012

I love how just about every smart response to this thread has downvotes.

It's not the fact they have boobs, it's the fact that they are over-sexualized, and have no variety when it comes to that.