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I'm trying out the new jungle in the pbe

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Corax

Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Stonewall008:
Lol you weren't here during season 1 were you? This was actually a very powerful path that was taken to STOP Nunu invasion.


How does this work though? What's the reasoning behind taking this route against nunu? I wasn't here during season 1 just want to know the theory behind this route. Are you supposed to invade after this?
Please help Stonewall


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yurklol

Junior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Stonewall008:
Lol you weren't here during season 1 were you? This was actually a very powerful path that was taken to STOP Nunu invasion.


No I wasn't, so let me ask you. What changes have been made since season 1 in respawn timers and value (xp, gold) of the small camps that you would be protecting from Nunu? Futhermore, what's to keep a Nunu who starts with 3-4 wards from seeing that his opponent didn't clear blue right away and just walking over and taking it?

For now I'm standing by my assertion that the route in question is a relic of season 1 jungle/meta and will not be helpful going forward.


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Stonewall008

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Slashcross451:
How does this work though? What's the reasoning behind taking this route against nunu? I wasn't here during season 1 just want to know the theory behind this route. Are you supposed to invade after this?
Please help Stonewall

They say a lot of things about the Season 1 jungle. The thing that is most true is that it was a lot harder and required more skill. Right clicking minions isn't skill but making the decision on what to do next is.

See in the Season 1 jungle the monsters spawn slower therefore you had a lot of time where the jungler was free to do as he pleased. However, some junglers can't do anything with that free time so they're stuck sitting on their thumbs. This prompted some players to look for ways of maximizing their gains.

Back then leashes did not exist and the experience range of monsters was big enough that even if someone wanted to help the jungler out by attacking the monsters they risked stealing exp. The junglers were pretty much on their own. A lot of junglers started off taking blue and clearing down. Some could do wolves and then blue (Trundle) and be faster than others.

You can still see the wolf start in the Lee Sin spotlight i believe. Anyways wolves to wraiths to golems got you level 3. Nunu, while a good thief, couldn't directly go steal a buff camp till he had level 3. Level 2 Nunu invasion is balls crazy except if he caught you trying to do the buff. You weren't doing any buffs so he backed off and since the small camps were taken he had nothing to steal and thus wasted time.

After going clearing the small camps - you go back to base and buy an item usually boots or cloth armor. Starting wolves let you start off with a lot more items like scepter, boots, doran's blade. Now you had item advantage over the Nunu and could probably murder him. You go blue and clear down and bam you're level 5. Most characters that could do this would reach level 5 just as or before the mid laner.


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CrankyFilipino

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Morphìne:
This .


Calling Skarner a supportish type is the problem people have in this game. He's meant to be played as a man.. or bug.. w/e..


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bellyring

Senior Member

11-18-2012

LOOOOOOOOOL.

riot must be full of idiots. sorry but for nobody to realise that what they are doing only makes ganking jungler MORE viable out of all those people working on the new jungle for all this time. sounds like u need to hire a new EVERYTHING because you'd think just 1 person would stand up and say "are u kidding with me?"

i think like 3 champs may be viable in the new jungle


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Scarlet Wrath

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Yeah as a top laner I can already tell this is going to be a nice season. Bad top laners with bad lane mechanics won't be able to fall on their junglers as a crutch.


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Stonewall008

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Scarlet Wrath:
Yeah as a top laner I can already tell this is going to be a nice season. Bad top laners with bad lane mechanics won't be able to fall on their junglers as a crutch.

You're on drugs right? This means they will be more prompted to camp you because the jungle is still worthless.


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Claw of Time

Member

11-18-2012

I was going to take this guy seriously but then I found out his elo is so low.


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RandomGuy928

Recruiter

11-18-2012

As a quick thought:

You don't see increased gold returns until after about 11 minutes. Also, very early gold seems to be down slightly (I believe I read somewhere that Wraiths give less gold at level 1).

You basically have to buy Machete in order to clear the jungle competitively on the vast majority of champions. Machete gives zero benefit outside killing jungle camps. The items that build out of Machete have significant portions of their gold sunk into a "jungle spec" that doesn't help at all against enemy champions.

Junglers will also get nicked small amounts of gold from minor tweaks such as a delayed or less optimal Philo Stone (as it is largely redundant with Spirit Stone - conjecture), the removal of HoG, and the increased cost of Vamp Scepter which will likely force some junglers to buy more pots to continue jungling.

Ganking is riskier and more difficult because you will be at low health more frequently, so there will likely be fewer chances to gain "gold boosts" from kills and assists.

Rounding up the thought:

Approximately equivalent gold income through camps until ~11 mintues.

More gold spent on a "jungle spec" (Machete, potions).

Less access to gp10's.

Harder to snowball through ganks.

How exactly is the jungle getting more gold than before?

I don't want to come out as a naysayer, but I'm having a very hard time understanding this. For the duration of the time you actually get any amount of sustained farm, the jungle doesn't give you more gold, but you then have to turn around and spend that gold on items that don't help you as much against enemy champions, all while giving up gp10 income and ganking opportunities.

I don't quite see how this adds up.


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Tetramaster

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
RandomGuy928:
As a quick thought:

You don't see increased gold returns until after about 11 minutes. Also, very early gold seems to be down slightly (I believe I read somewhere that Wraiths give less gold at level 1).

You basically have to buy Machete in order to clear the jungle competitively on the vast majority of champions. Machete gives zero benefit outside killing jungle camps. The items that build out of Machete have significant portions of their gold sunk into a "jungle spec" that doesn't help at all against enemy champions.

Junglers will also get nicked small amounts of gold from minor tweaks such as a delayed or less optimal Philo Stone (as it is largely redundant with Spirit Stone - conjecture), the removal of HoG, and the increased cost of Vamp Scepter which will likely force some junglers to buy more pots to continue jungling.

Ganking is riskier and more difficult because you will be at low health more frequently, so there will likely be fewer chances to gain "gold boosts" from kills and assists.

Rounding up the thought:

Approximately equivalent gold income through camps until ~11 mintues.

More gold spent on a "jungle spec" (Machete, potions).

Less access to gp10's.

Harder to snowball through ganks.

How exactly is the jungle getting more gold than before?

I don't want to come out as a naysayer, but I'm having a very hard time understanding this. For the duration of the time you actually get any amount of sustained farm, the jungle doesn't give you more gold, but you then have to turn around and spend that gold on items that don't help you as much against enemy champions, all while giving up gp10 income and ganking opportunities.

I don't quite see how this adds up.


It adds up only if the jungler is still farming after 11 minutes.

Which currently they do not.

And with the rewards being so bleh, there is very little incentive to continue to farm instead of just camping a lane or two.

Tweaks to the jungle to make it worth more gold (except for wraiths, because every mid wants to steal them, **** them) throughout the game would make junglers choose: Farm up, or gank. Make it so the gain kicks in earlier.