I'm trying out the new jungle in the pbe

First Riot Post
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Tesla21

Member

11-17-2012

Is the exp left untouched? Do I still have to wait 20 minutes to reach 6 and be able to pull off a decent gank as Warwick?


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GoneWithTheWind

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulking View Post
So, you made the jungle harder and keep the money as in S2 till 11 minutes? then why farm it at all? this just incentive more early ganks since it is easier to gank than to farm.
I actually agree with that.
The changes are as follows: Jungle creeps are harder to kill, yet only give the same amount of money.

To me that makes ganking/counter ganking a -lot- more desirable.
If anything, this change will not slow lane ganks down, but instead build a demand for it earlier, because time/money wise it should be more beneficial to you, as a jungler, as well as your team, to kill as many enemy champs as early as possible.


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Jack Anansi

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneWithTheWind View Post
I actually agree with that.
The changes are as follows: Jungle creeps are harder to kill, yet only give the same amount of money.

To me that makes ganking/counter ganking a -lot- more desirable.
If anything, this change will not slow lane ganks down, but instead increase it, because time/money wise it should be more beneficial to you, as a jungler, as well as your team, to kill as many enemy champs as early as possible.
Actually, I believe that jungle mobs no longer bank gold in S3. So you'll be getting less gold overall if you aren't killing them asap.


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Tesla21

Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Anansi View Post
Actually, I believe that jungle mobs no longer bank gold in S3. So you'll be getting less gold overall if you aren't killing them asap.
If this is true then this ****ing sucks


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GoneWithTheWind

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Anansi View Post
Actually, I believe that jungle mobs no longer bank gold in S3. So you'll be getting less gold overall if you aren't killing them asap.
Yes, but actually going for jungle creeps sounds like it'll be far more difficult than before, with no discernible positive trade off.
Wouldn't this shift the Jungle meta vastly towards the junglers who aren't dependent on the Jungle, but instead are heavy on killing lanes?

I could see this making farm/tank junglers fall completely out of favor for champs that already usually gank early, and are supposed to keep ganking heavily.

Another concern is, if they cannot do that, and farming the jungle gives less money than before, due to no banking, it would make the Jungler fall behind, effectively increasing snowballing for the opposite team, no? (although this point is hypothetical currently it should not be dismissed).


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Eat Orange Be K

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Have to echo a lot of this page's sentiment: if the jungle gains are better beyond midgame, and only comparable to the Live jungle, then that misses the mark on helping junglers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk
This way junglers who shift their focus toward farming the jungle efficiently can acquire gold and experience faster. This opens up the jungle to many of the more damage-focused and gold-reliant champions like Master Yi who need to scale into the later parts of the game.
In fact, under this, the farm based jungler does not do any better off than the current iteration (as early XP and gold are pretty much the same) and it serves more to buff the other lanes who invariably take all the jungle camps from midgame onward.

The reason this concerns me is that already, many junglers require their ganks to be productive just to keep up in gold and xp. As it stands now, it seems like it's going to be even harder to produce that supplement to the income (due to itemization, hp, etc.), which would be fine, but it seems like there's no tradeoff. It just seems like nerfed ganking, harder to sustain, same gold and xp, and by the point where it becomes finally favorable, it goes to everyone else. I try to avoid hyperbole, but that pretty clearly sounds like nerfing every jungler's early game and buffing everybody but the jungler's mid/late game.

Maybe my concerns are unfounded -I hope so and will remain hopeful and see what Riot are doing-, but it certainly doesn't seem like what we're seeing actually meets the goals of what Riot are wanting or intend for Season 3. It doesn't seem to diversify jungler options (as just as many are going out as coming in). It doesn't seem to provide the income to bring farm/carry type junglers back to good standing. It doesn't provide the improved farm that was supposed to make gp10 stacking unnecessary. So far, it just seems like it allowed sustain Junglers back in. Which while I like for my Trundle/Fiddle/Warwick, wasn't the only goal, or even the biggest goal as stated.


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dogbiter

Senior Member

11-17-2012

how's this guy yi on the jungle and with the new items?


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Bullettime7

Senior Member

11-17-2012

So let me get all of this straight after the recent red post(s.)

Riot buffs the jungle to make farming more appealing and makes ganking lanes constantly less appealing and more punishing in gold and XP loss when you fail.

They then scale it to where jungle camps in said new jungle see the EXACT SAME gold returns as S2 up to 11 minutes, without having Heart of Gold to supplement.

This doesn't make any sense. By the time the jungle camps are actually worth gold and worth actively farming instead of bush camping lanes for kill gold, it'll be at a point where the carries start taking the camps themselves to supplement their income more and when the laning phase is almost over in which case you might not even have access to some or most of your jungle for much longer.

This just seems contradictory to the entire reason of the jungle revamp and will do nothing but encourage picking gank heavy junglers more than ever before as the jungle won't have a higher reward to coincide with the higher, in some cases much higher, risk for some of the other junglers who can't gank as effectively early on. By the time the junglers will be able to reap the "benefits" of the new jungle, it won't be long until the jungle camps and gold will belong to the carries for supplemental income.


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Corporal Cupcake

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Please for the love of God tell me Shaco can survive it without boxing up literally every camp. Seriously he can't go anywhere else and he's my favorite champ ):


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Bullettime7

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplosion View Post
Please for the love of God tell me Shaco can survive it without boxing up literally every camp. Seriously he can't go anywhere else and he's my favorite champ ):
From testing him on the PBE, Shaco does pretty much fine. You only need to hit 2 or 3 on jungle camps and then mainly gank lanes. He's actually one who hasn't seen much of any change compared to how he plays on the live game except to start with Machete. Drop box, smack big creep in the face, mop up little ones, gank a lane. Only real change is that counterjungling will be making a return, meaning you can go screw with the enemy jungler hardcore, if not flat out kill them based on their jungle pick.