I'm trying out the new jungle in the pbe

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Cdore

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Hey, Stonewall, because of how hard the buffs now are at the early levels, do you believe it would be more beneficial to just skip the buffs are have the person you want to give it to help you kill the buffs, at least for the first few levels? I feel like skipping the buff monsters will help increase clear time and let someone focus more on ganking than farming if they need to. I think they're trying to get rid of the red buff once more in terms of how effective it is in ganks.


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MaiLinna

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyKat View Post
Day 1
The crash site is a mess. I'm alive, but for how long? Nobody else is around. It's not looking good so far :/

Day 2
I found a machete in the ruins of the cargo hold, but it's still a struggle to cut through the dense foliage of this world.

Day 3
This place is brutal. It took me all day to create enough of a clear path to move deeper into the jungle. Good news though, Diana managed to make her way to the crash site and doesn't appear much worse for wear.

Day 6
I had a fright today as Darius came crashing out from the undergrowth with an axe and a trio of wolves slung over his shoulder. One was almost as large as the man himself... I didn't enjoy his company before, but it's comforting to see a friendly face. At least we'll eat well tonight. Still no sign of Shyvana or the ship's doctor.

Day 13
The more time I spend in this jungle, the more I feel like it's not so bad. Not good, either, mind you, just different from the forests of our home. Doctor Mundo and Shyvana finally came stumbling out of the brush last night as we were cooking dinner. Apparently the smoke from the fires led them to our location. They told me that Warwick and Fiddlesticks were starting a settlement north of our location, shelter and food enough for all of us, found in the wreckage of their own larger ship. The others want to strike out, but I feel hesitant. We haven't seen any signs of Lee and I haven't given up hope for him yet...
You're so awesome.


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Released Phoenix

Member

11-17-2012

All of them are "obvious exceptions to the rule".

Xin, jax, olaf, nunu all get steroids or inbuilt sustain.
They can all gank with a gap closer or slow.

ALL of them clear in under 5 minutes.
ALL of them are V.I.A.B.L.E

Just because you disagree, doesn't make you right.


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Stonewall008

Senior Member

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Mindus Dew

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

For your Kha'zix run, I think Q would actually be a more beneficial start. As you said, you get 2 Q's off in the time it takes to get one W. With your runes, that would be around 150 extra damage after the machete's passive to the big wolf/blue. The time shaved off of the camps would likely make up for the sustain given by W. Just a consideration.

edit: This was addressed on the youtube video. Sorry for double posting. Thanks for the reply


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yobweja

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

i bet nocturne and udyr still pwn


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R2D2 Bot

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Stonewall - Our internal testers are literally brainless monkeys, please tell us what's wrong with the jungle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokroma View Post
Oh wow
I'm concerned that this could have happened.


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

I messed around with jungle much less then Stonewall but I spent a solid amount of time looking at the mastery/item changes. I think that there have been enough small changes to warrant a rebuild of early jungle patterns.

Machete definitely helps many Junglers but I think the way masteries are layed out opens some weird tricks for a jungler. The item changes specifically open some oddities on that first buy.

Crystaline Flask is the big one. With it's low gold cost and being built out of the cheap Rejuv and Fairy Charm a Jungler can grab it first back pretty easily. The health returns are weaker then a Pot but it also grants a respectable amount of mana while granting gold efficiency the more you use it.

I think that it's too expensive to start Machete/Rejuv or Fairy unless you get Utiltiy masteries.

Other odd things I feel may be worth exploring
-Early Avarice Blade on a Farm jungler.
-Full Offensive tree to get the 31 as it now applies to targets below 50% health which grants some extra wiggle room.
-Defensive tree's Arm and Monster focused masteries are really early in the tree. An 8 point dip gets you all the basics...If you wish to add only one more point the turret damage reduction is a pretty sweet idea.
--While it's easy to grab all that arm stuff. Durability and Veteran's Scars directly competes with it. Thus Veteran's Scars, Hardiness, and Bladed Armor push you to a minimum 12 defense. Veteran Scars may be a mastery to avoid as a jungler (but get as a laner).
-Defenses's later stuff primarily revolves around assisting within fights. Relentless reduces Slow effeciency which does not appear to be the same as tenacity. Thus Relentless + Renacious + Boots of Swiftness could be a great way for someone like Udyr to better handle being hit with slows.
-While the % Pen masteries in Offensive are tantalizing. A Jungler might be able to get Pen runes and plan to grab Void Staff, Last Whisper, Black Cleaver, Haunting Guise for pen later if they need it. Thus maybe skipping Offensive or doing a smaller dip could work out.
--Butcher is +4 damage vs Monsters. First tier of Offensive is loaded with goodies that Junglers like to have baseline.
-Offensive's Wanderer is really nice for moving around the map which is a large part of jungling. Strength of Spirit being a much easier grab is worth consideration. Given the new Manamune and Tear itemization utility might be a method for certain junglers to build a blue independent mid game into a strong late game item. (would mean getting a tear..)
--New Vamparism makes it a very efficient talent for Junglers. Spellvamp may gain from Machete and it definitely gains from smite.
---Explorer could allow a jungler to do wolves first, ward their blue, and then go to small camps on the other side to get a higher level before taking blue. If they are also mana independant it could mean giving Mid Blue when they are level 2-3. Even without there may be something to buying an early ward to prevent counter jungling while delaying a big camp.
-A full 31 in Utility could offer some intriguing sustain gains for a Jungler as well as some...well utility. Pickpocket could help repay aggresive behavoir either counter jungling or ganking while the MS boosts in general may reduce the time it takes to return to your own camps...


I think Trundle specifically may be worth testing with a 0/9/31 or something like a 4/9/27 build. With a focus on CDR, and MS while gaining Lifesteal and anti-monster damage for clear speeds. CDR and MS are his most important tools for Pillar early game. The question becomes mana usage but the Q change and Utilities mana boosts could be enough. Even if not a Crystal Flask would be a good early buy.


-Lifesteal or Spellvamp Quits could be really important.
--As Machete increases damage by a % +dmg could work better then expected in comparison to AS for faster kills. This could be champion dependent as well.
---Machete's passive did not appear to stack to me so more AS may not actually help it. It could simply be something you keep up and get a set bonus DPS from...
---Machete may raise Smite damage....
-With fairy charm and Rejuv being the meat and potatos items for regen it may be more gold effecient to grab them early rather then spend it all on pots.
--Doran's Ring grabs Mana per hit and could really make a difference on mana intense junglers
---Doran's Blade confering life on hit could be a similiar strong early sustain.
-Generally since many low gold cost items build into more things mid and late game it might be efficient for a Jungler to stock up as they go. Rather then rush something big grab a bunch of pieces of different things then save up for a big buy.


Just throwing some assorted thoughts out as I wait 15 out of my 45 min que timer. When I get on the beta I hope to get some custom games in and iterate on a single jungler to see what the different things feel like.

To Stonewall008 directly: Keep up the good work dude!


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Reverend

Member

11-17-2012

How does Nunu fare?


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Vulking

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Senior Member

11-17-2012

Anyone else think that Hecarim Q penalty to minions should be removed? I think is overly redundant that he has his Q damage cripple twice (once with the penalty and once with the AoE resistance of the jungle).