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Nami - feedback and questions thread

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PeachyHime

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Healsforhugs:
It seems like a lot of issues with her Q would be solved with a slightly larger radius. I feel a little hesitant about that because it is an AOE 1.25 second knock up. That's pretty scary, especially since she can spam it quite easily. It should be something that takes a lot of practice/skill to land.

I feel like her E is primarily a guaranteed phage proc which is strong depending on the situations. I wouldn't count on it for damage. It might be useful for harassing with auto attacks if you feel like it and it adds a little bit more damage for tower pushing.

W.. Yeah.. really doesn't do damage or healing but what other choices do you have for spells? Nothing reliable.. I think this really needs all the attention when it comes to changes.

I'm quite fine with her R. A lot of support's Rs won't make a team fight an instant success just because you landed it. What support ults do you feel do a better job? Right now, just because of everything it has, it seems to be the strongest support ult at the moment in my opinion.


It's true, landing an ult or activating one does not automatically make you win a team fight. Those that I feel have a stronger impact would be Sona's by stunning an entire team or quite a few of them. Soraka can easily turn a team fight around with a correct timed ult. Tarics ult to buff everyones power while keeping himself very tanky. Janna's with the immediate disengage but of course I feel Janna's is debatable due to the nerfs making it not as strong as it used to be late game.

I could be unfairly judging Nami by putting my standards too high. Though this is my opinion on it.

I do agree with you on Q, it is very powerful.

As for E, my viewpoint on it was late game team fights. It's very useful early on and mid game, but late game I find the spell die off.


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Yggtalem

Senior Member

11-16-2012

only a couple of complaints about this champ
1 W cost too high (but if i read correctly its currently double of what its supposed to be)
2 E animation is hard to read if you are the ADC receiving the buff, the sound is distincy when playing as nami but doesnt pop enough IMO when you are on the recieving end
3 the ult range indicator is a bit bland, i see it has these little wavelets near the start but for the most part is a long, empty rectangle
4 all her audios are a bit on the low volume side

Either way its a very fun champ and she does convey that feeling of ebb and flow, im a bit concerned about her being a tad TOO viable on mid, i would really love to see her supporting as its her intended role (not another release lulu), either way its gonna be the first release day buy in a while now so dont think that the criticism was all that harsh, lots of <3 for Nami!


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Healsforhugs

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
PeachyHime:
It's true, landing an ult or activating one does not automatically make you win a team fight. Those that I feel have a stronger impact would be Sona's by stunning an entire team or quite a few of them. Soraka can easily turn a team fight around with a correct timed ult. Tarics ult to buff everyones power while keeping himself very tanky. Janna's with the immediate disengage.

I could be unfairly judging Nami by putting my standards too high. Though this is my opinion on it.


I'd have to argue that Nami's ult is better because it has much longer range. Sona's ult has short range and most of the time I feel like I need my flash to land a perfect ult. Nami's virtually takes up a lane and you can stay near your carries and continue to buff/cc after your ult is down. Sona some times feels like shes only useful for her ult at later times in the game. I tend to favor knock ups since they can't be mitigated by tenacity. I will say some supports will do better with certain team comps. I feel like in terms of AOE CC ults, shes looking like the top of the list at the moment.


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Talamare

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Am I the only one who felt her voice didnt go well with the character design?

She has a mystical and rather cute design to her, and yet she sounds like a punk rock girl, she sounds what I would expect from someone wearing Caitlyns Resistance skin


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PeachyHime

Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Healsforhugs:
I'd have to argue that Nami's ult is better because it has much longer range. Sona's ult has short range and most of the time I feel like I need my flash to land a perfect ult. Nami's virtually takes up a lane and you can stay near your carries and continue to buff/cc after your ult is down. Sona some times feels like shes only useful for her ult at later times in the game. I tend to favor knock ups since they can't be mitigated by tenacity. I will say some supports will do better with certain team comps. I feel like in terms of AOE CC ults, shes looking like the top of the list at the moment.


Hmm, on the viewpoint of who's ult is easier to land, Nami wins hands down. However I don't think she can TURN a team fight around. By all means, yes her ult is extremely scary easy to land in lane but with using it, can you instantly turn that fight around? Sona is capable of stunning a team, giving you 1.5 (1 on those with tenacity) second/s to instantly take out their damage. Potentially allowing you to win that bad engage or losing fight. Nami's ult with no ap built is not very damaging at all, and doesn't stop them from attacking you since the knock up is quite bad does not hit them all at once and only applies a slow. Sure you can disengage from the fight, but how will it turn the fight around?

Of course I'm thinking of the big play where those risky come backs happen. Assuming you are winning the fight, then yes her ult is much more practical for engaging, and securing the kills.

I highly agree with you here, team composition to fairly compare ults is vital. Unless I have a premade of 5 to fairly address different comps to see where she plays I'll think a little more highly of her ult.

Though what I guess I'm saying is her ult is neither that big of a team fight changer, or a disengage. Kinda in the inbetween, though it may be better than Janna's ult for disengage due to the slow and the radius.

Just in case I came off wrong, I in no way mean her ult is 'bad' or 'useless' in my first post I tried to make her sound appealing because of her ult.

As for 'Sona is a walking ult' I feel people under value her utility in her aura's which stack with other support items making them even more effective. Just remember to thank that sona for buffing your offence with her Q, buffing your armour and mr with W. The E ok I'll give you that one, but a good Sona will utilize her E chord slow instead of using the Q chord late game. It's like people remember Soraka has that annoying free mr passive and Taric has that armour passive but always forget Sona's exist haha.


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Ravechaosknight

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Classick:
This is something I've thought about a lot, one idea we've thought of is a more debuff heavy support where their AP ratios scale the duration of their debuffs as opposed to damage. More than likely Nami will have her AP ratios reduced some, but we don't want to make purchasing AP feel like a complete waste.


I'm guessing the recommended items in the Items & tips section are placeholders right? Cause Heart of Gold, lol.

Also, please let her play mid too. I understand that supports don't want mages stepping on their toes in bottom lane. I fully support(>.&gt that, but I main utility/support mages like Galio and Lux mid. I have the heart of a support, but not the mentality. Wait, maybe that's the other way around. In any event let supports mid if they want to, but don't let mages think they can support. (Hurrah, double standards!)

Also, I could have sworn I posted an iteration of her Ult a couple months ago, but I can't seem to find the post. ;-;


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BeastBox

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Healsforhugs:
What is wrong with having champions who are only good in one role? There are champions only for jungle, top, mid, ad carry, why not support? Why is that so wrong?

Just to jump in here, the reason it's terrible in support is if you go that route. you basically have to make them overpowered from the outset to make them relevant. Which is why the dedicated support has been dying a slow death this year.

Look at Janna. Can't play her anywhere but support now, and she's nerfed so hard you never see her. You might as well remove her from the game. She had a secondary role in mid, but I guess Riot didn't like that. Also look at all the AP mids moving south. If they get a good laning phase and grab lots of assists or farm when an ADC isn't around, they can be monsters late game. Dedicated supports can't; there's no such thing as a monster Sona. So again, why bring one? You're giving up a major advantage by bringing a champ who can only do one thing, because a) if they get shut down in that one thing, they're useless, and b) if they can't take advantage of the opportunity to serve another purpose the team needs, the opportunity is squandered.

I would also go so far as to say that being able to play a champion more than one way is just good design, and most champs have at least two ways to play them. Versatile champions are always better, because you need to be able to counterplay the other team. Nunu is generally played support, but I like to take him top just to be a jerk. If I bring a Leona, the enemy team knows exactly what I'm doing and can counter-pick more easily.

Nami would be a nice turn in bad design if they designed her primarily as a support, but with a mage's damage capabilities. if you don't like it, Riot can just say she was always a mage, and we'll play her support anyway (like Zyra). Same end result. The only way a support can be "overpowered" is if you feed them. High ratios don't matter if they're running around with wards and aura items.

TL; DR: Pigeon-holing a champ is bad design in general.


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Healsforhugs

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
BeastBox:
Just to jump in here, the reason it's terrible in support is if you go that route. you basically have to make them overpowered from the outset to make them relevant. Which is why the dedicated support has been dying a slow death this year.

Look at Janna. Can't play her anywhere but support now, and she's nerfed so hard you never see her. You might as well remove her from the game. She had a secondary role in mid, but I guess Riot didn't like that. Also look at all the AP mids moving south. If they get a good laning phase and grab lots of assists or farm when an ADC isn't around, they can be monsters late game. Dedicated supports can't; there's no such thing as a monster Sona. So again, why bring one? You're giving up a major advantage by bringing a champ who can only do one thing, because a) if they get shut down in that one thing, they're useless, and b) if they can't take advantage of the opportunity to serve another purpose the team needs, the opportunity is squandered.

I would also go so far as to say that being able to play a champion more than one way is just good design, and most champs have at least two ways to play them. Versatile champions are always better, because you need to be able to counterplay the other team. Nunu is generally played support, but I like to take him top just to be a jerk. If I bring a Leona, the enemy team knows exactly what I'm doing and can counter-pick more easily.

Nami would be a nice turn in bad design if they designed her primarily as a support, but with a mage's damage capabilities. if you don't like it, Riot can just say she was always a mage, and we'll play her support anyway (like Zyra). Same end result. The only way a support can be "overpowered" is if you feed them. High ratios don't matter if they're running around with wards and aura items.


I'm not quite sure where you're seeing monster Zyras. Typical Zyras that do end up smashing lane end up going typical support items rather then going an AP route.

If people want to pick Soraka/Taric/Leona, its pretty obvious that they're going bot. That's their choice to be "counter picked". Not every champion needs to be viable in different roles. Trying to balance every champion or every new champion to fill multiple roles is unrealistic.

I think the point to 0 cs supports is that you're always useful, despite not having gold or even being shut down in lane because your kit is full of utility your team just wouldn't be the same without. That is the reason why teams take supports in the first place, they bring something to the team that no one else can. Support items before the season 3 patch are extremely strong, and even getting 1 very early can drastically change how the rest of the game will go compared to if your team didn't have it.

I don't believe supports will ever build mainly AP. The concept of that doesn't even make sense because they'd be better suited for middle lane where they can farm for items to get AP. Supports are there to provide map awareness, support items, and support abilities. All of which a good team cannot do without. If you want a second damage dealer then by all means try to stick a mage down bottom. It works in certain team comps. But then its just a mage bottom trying to build items with 0 cs, not supporting which is what I'm trying to talk about.


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forcemblem

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
BeastBox:
Just to jump in here, the reason it's terrible in support is if you go that route. you basically have to make them overpowered from the outset to make them relevant. Which is why the dedicated support has been dying a slow death this year.

Look at Janna. Can't play her anywhere but support now, and she's nerfed so hard you never see her. You might as well remove her from the game. She had a secondary role in mid, but I guess Riot didn't like that. Also look at all the AP mids moving south. If they get a good laning phase and grab lots of assists or farm when an ADC isn't around, they can be monsters late game. Dedicated supports can't; there's no such thing as a monster Sona. So again, why bring one? You're giving up a major advantage by bringing a champ who can only do one thing, because a) if they get shut down in that one thing, they're useless, and b) if they can't take advantage of the opportunity to serve another purpose the team needs, the opportunity is squandered.

I would also go so far as to say that being able to play a champion more than one way is just good design, and most champs have at least two ways to play them. Versatile champions are always better, because you need to be able to counterplay the other team. Nunu is generally played support, but I like to take him top just to be a jerk. If I bring a Leona, the enemy team knows exactly what I'm doing and can counter-pick more easily.

Nami would be a nice turn in bad design if they designed her primarily as a support, but with a mage's damage capabilities. if you don't like it, Riot can just say she was always a mage, and we'll play her support anyway (like Zyra). Same end result. The only way a support can be "overpowered" is if you feed them. High ratios don't matter if they're running around with wards and aura items.

TL; DR: Pigeon-holing a champ is bad design in general.


Tl;DR: Leona.


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Tigercule

Senior Member

11-16-2012

Quote:
Muel:
I think the math is counting the total healing done ... if you manage to bounce the skill to 3 allies, then the overall healing is potentially higher, as soraka's normal heal is only single target

You can bounce to 2 allies max, as it has to bounce A-E-A or E-A-E (where E = Enemy, and A = Ally)

@developers: Based on size comparison to other similar weapons, her trident/staff/wand thing looks like it should have been a melee weapon. I'm relieved that she's ranged, as I dislike melee champions, but what was the decision-making process in giving her a staff rather than a smaller weapon with less reach like a wand/etc.? Was she originally a melee, or was it decided to simply break the mold?