Building Vayne

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DrScientist

Junior Member

10-05-2011

So I've been wanting to try Vayne for a while now, and now that she's free this week I finally got a chance. But I've been wondering what the best way to build her is. I've just been doing my Ashe build with her, figuring that since they are both ranged DPS, it couldn't be too far off the mark.

My Ashe build is this:

Dorans Blade
Boots
BFSword
Boots => Berzerker Greaves
BFSword => Infinity Edge
Phantom Dancer
Next 2 items are usually Last Whisper and Banshee's Veil, the order depending on the situation.

I've only used Vayne a couple times, and I've done OK with her but nothing spectacular. I was really struggling in the early game, but I found that, like Ashe, once I got Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer, my enemies would just die. Any pointers would be great, since she's been a lot of fun to use, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right.


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Celebrias

Junior Member

10-05-2011

You have to remember that vayne is one of the weakest characters in terms of health in the entire game. She is also needs a closer range and a lot of skill to play. If you've been doing so~so, then that is really good for a beginner, because i've had her since she came out and still suck as her. ANYWAY onto the build.

You should always remember to sell Doran's Blade by about mid/late game, depending on whether you'll get that extra BF Sword or not. Unlike Ashe, Vayne needs attack speed to burst her enemies down and keep moving on top of them. A Black Cleaver would be a good viable option instead of Last Whisper. If you find yourself dieing too much, get a Frozen Mallet instead. The slow should be more than enough for you too chase. I would choose a Bloodthirster before an infinity edge just because of the survivability you get from the lifesteal. Also, if you can keep full stacks, it has more AD then IE. Phantom Dancer is just fine.

A total look at the build would be
Doran's Blade
Boots
BF Sword
Zeal
Bezerker Greaves
BF Sword => Black Cleaver
Bloodthirster
Sell Doran's Blade
Phantom Dancer
Infinity Edge
Banshee's Veil


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Dragull

Senior Member

10-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrScientist View Post
So I've been wanting to try Vayne for a while now, and now that she's free this week I finally got a chance. But I've been wondering what the best way to build her is. I've just been doing my Ashe build with her, figuring that since they are both ranged DPS, it couldn't be too far off the mark.

My Ashe build is this:

Dorans Blade
Boots
BFSword
Boots => Berzerker Greaves
BFSword => Infinity Edge
Phantom Dancer
Next 2 items are usually Last Whisper and Banshee's Veil, the order depending on the situation.

I've only used Vayne a couple times, and I've done OK with her but nothing spectacular. I was really struggling in the early game, but I found that, like Ashe, once I got Infinity Edge and Phantom Dancer, my enemies would just die. Any pointers would be great, since she's been a lot of fun to use, I just want to make sure I'm doing it right.
That's a good build. Just don't go Madred's or Trinity Force, although popular, are not so good in most scenarios.

If you are farming well and not dying, go BT - PD- IE.
If not so good just go BF - PD- IE - defensive item. You might wanna build lifesteal at some point.

When I play vs a strong ad laner like Caitlyn I like rushing Wriggles lantern. It gives you sustain and armor. Additionally it will help you control baron and dragon.


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Jairoe

Senior Member

10-05-2011

I actually usually pick Vayne as a counter pick to a team with 2-3+ tanky dps type champions. Silver bullets + a Madred's generally turns you into your team's tank killer despite what the above poster says. It really does work great if you do get the Madred's early but mainly against tanky dps champ teams. Their burst isn't as good as a more traditional comp (1 ad ranged, 1 ap mage, 1 ad/tanky jungler, a tank and support). I usually start with 2 Doran's Blades (3 if not doing well early phase). Always get Berserker Greaves because that early AS is crucial, lets you focus on AD more.

Otherwise if you are trying to play her more normal, I still find the standard, early I.E. to Phantom Dancer to Banshee's Veil works great. I seen Triforce work but I personally would veer away from it since its not really a ranged ad type item even though I can see it work. Remember Vayne is a very short ranged ad, almost border line assassin since many other melee ad assassins have very similar type of range. She's very different in that sense compared to someone like Ashe or Caitlyn who tend to use a longer range.


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Daerkannon

Senior Member

10-06-2011

I've been playing with Vayne a lot the last couple of days (she stopping me from trying the other free champs!) I still struggle with not feeding early, but if I get fed and/or avoid feeding she turns into a real beast. The true definition of a carry.

I feel strongly that for building her you want AS. AD is nice, but silver bolts is your killer skill and to get the most out of it, you want AS. Crit is also nice, but I see it as a bonus. As a result my first items are Wit's End, Madred's and Phantom Blade and boots. If I get fed I'll try for the Phantom Blade first for the extra speed, and if I'm in trouble I'll get Wit's first. After that I usually throw in an Atmog to give me stupid survivability. I've stood toe to toe with an AD/Bloodthirster Vayne and killed her when I was at half health.

Edit: I buy rank 1 boots + 3 potions to start. I don't like buying stuff that doesn't build into something better and the Dorans doesn't do much for you early game. The extra health probably won't save you if you over extend, the life steal doesn't work on the silver bolt proc and +10 AD is barely noticeable. Then with my first 1k gold I can get a recurve bow and start to become effective.


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SquidBlub

Senior Member

10-06-2011

I usually start with shoes and three red sodas. Doran's blade if I have a support. Just farm farm farm farm farm, get boots (Zerks if you don't need anything else, anything you need comes before zerks). First BF item is IE if I have a support and BT if I don't. Phantom Dancer is next and after that is situational.

Pure AS is a bad idea. Silver bolt procs do a lot of damage but in a teamfight how many times will you be able to hit the same target in a row before he dies or puts himself in a position where continuing to attack him will get you killed? Vayne has a short range and relying on silver bolt procs will lower your dps.


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Daerkannon

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBlub View Post
... in a teamfight how many times will you be able to hit the same target in a row before he dies or puts himself in a position where continuing to attack him will get you killed? Vayne has a short range and relying on silver bolt procs will lower your dps.
I had to reply because this statement confuses me. If your target is dead, what more could you want out of Vayne?

I haven't tried an AD Vayne yet, I'm just telling the OP what's worked for me as a Vayne noob. (Also Madred's and Wits End both add magic proc damage that scales nicely with AS, so no I'm not building only for AS)


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

10-06-2011

What he is saying is that Vaynes Silver Bolts only work every third hit on the same dude. So she basically gets a max of 2% true damage and 20 free AD on average (best case scenario).

This is good and all, but it is not enough to rely solely on Bolts to deliver your DPS. Compare to Kog who has a 6% damage proc on EVERY SINGLE ATTACK (even though it is magical, not true). Kog simply gets more Deeps out of his steriod and thus can use on-hit/AS booster items like Wits End. Kog gets ZERO AD boost, and nothing really scales off of AD either (excluding his ult which scales crappily)

Other reasons to avoid the on-hit items are:

a) The AD on 3rd hit is actual AD, not a 60 dmg proc. Hence it can CRIT.

b) Her Tumble boosts her damage based on AD, not on-hit damage procs. A wits end does nothing to work with tumble.

c) Actually Tumble kind of boosts her attack speed (or can actually slow it down at a point), making AS less important than you might think. Corki players will kinda know what Im talking about here.


Hence, you want consider Bolts true damage as a nice bonus, NOT as something to base the entire champ build around. She still gets free AD and AD-scaling from tumble, so you still want to be able to hit pretty hard per attack by getting both AD and CRIT. This does not mean ignore AS though...just to not overly focus on it.

Another reason to avoid WitsEnd/Razor/etc, is because Phantom is already really really good for Vayne. The crit works very well with her AD-centric ness and the movespeed bonus is very very good. WE/SotD/Razor do NOT boost her MS, and if you DO combine them with PD, then their onhit dmg doesnt crit and thus doesn't combo well.

I am not saying it fails utterly, but that it is just not as efficient as it could be with the correct itemization.


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Daerkannon

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Thanks Warrrrax, you've given me a few things to think about. I didn't think my build was close to optimal, but now I have more information on how to refine it properly. At least we can all agree that Phantom is awesome. I'll also acknowledge that I'm probably not tumbling as much as I should be, however sometimes I find myself going OOM when I'm very active with my abilities in a fight. Is this something that goes away with better runes?


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Cenerae

Senior Member

10-06-2011

Your build looks fine, OP. Just don't fall into the trap so many bad Vaynes do and stack attack speed to no end. Silver Bolts is nice, but it only procs every 3 shots. Which means you only do good damage once every 3 shots, instead of on every shot by using a standard carry build.

Infinity (or bloodthirster) to phantom dancer then situational items will work just fine though.


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