What's Zed's Role?

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LordTobiothan

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eizeru View Post
I had zero luck with him top. He wins lane like from levels 1-4, but then just gets out scaled by everyone after that.
All the luck I have had with him has been mid so far. I think he just works perfectly in that lane.
You have this entirely backwords, his early levels are very low damage with energy starvation, post 6 you start scaling amazingly and have an awesome late game.

If your experiance differs you probably build incorrectly as most zeds ive seen do it wrong.


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Primanocte

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfestopheles View Post
Wrong.
No silence or hard cc, what specifically in his kit is anti ap?


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Primanocte

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTobiothan View Post
You have this entirely backwords, his early levels are very low damage with energy starvation, post 6 you start scaling amazingly and have an awesome late game.

If your experiance differs you probably build incorrectly as most zeds ive seen do it wrong.
How are you building? Most people are going full AD from what I've seen, bruiser doesn't do enough damage.


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lmaonade200

Senior Member

11-15-2012

he's a burst assassin like talon, anti-carries usually go mid


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AgitatedOne

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Actually, while his ganking isn't great... his clear time is on Mundo levels.

Dat E spam.


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Fenomenom

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordTobiothan View Post
You have this entirely backwords, his early levels are very low damage with energy starvation, post 6 you start scaling amazingly and have an awesome late game.

If your experiance differs you probably build incorrectly as most zeds ive seen do it wrong.

You have only ever built him one way, and have only had mediocre games. the best being 9/4.

I only bring it up because you speak like you are the authority on knowing whats good with zed. When you havn't even experimented, and have yet to really do well.


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Covenants

Senior Member

11-15-2012

^^^lawl


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Felderak

Junior Member

01-30-2013

After reading every1's comments about Zed and what he can and cannot do. I've decided to break zed down, using my custom build. (mix of wut u usually see on a zed and things that uve prolly never seen on a zed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foomps View Post
idk but i personally would prefer talon over zed in top or mid. In my last game as mid zed i faced a fiddlesticks and got completely wrecked by him since i couldn't do anything once he started draining me. The whole time i was thinking how much easier it wud be if i was talon since i could bait the fear and drain then use my E to silence the drain and then full combo fiddlesticks
First Lets address zed as mid: Alot of you are saying he is not an Anti-ap or anti mid type fighter. Here is where u are wrong (especially in the case of fighting a fiddle sticks). One of you said zed has no anti mid becuz he lacks 2 of the 3 components needed to handle mid (silence and burst). I will agree zed has no silence, but his burst if played right is way better and stronger then most mids at lower lvls (especially fiddle sticks). and based on that if done right later on his burst is so high that even if he dies to an AP target, his ULT will deal a finishing blow. Also, that one guys said that at level 6 he is a great ganker and roamer when playing mid. this is true, except you do not have to wait for 6, 4-5 any good zed can start harrassing other lanes or even causing successful ganks. At that point if is lane is handled he should have his slow and at least lvl 2 q for long range kills/harrass. fNow your wondering how can a zed keep up with an AP Burst. The answer is in the build you use, most people go for a little armor pen with as much AD as possible, normally this would be fine, but it is also a waste of his talents. (more on this later) Now, on to top lane zed. A couple of oyu feel he cannot keep up with most if not all top lane champions. This is also wrong, zed is perfect for top for several reasons, the first is his ability to farm creep and harass enemy champions. Zeds Q is by far one of the best harassment spells in the game for a melee. ( and quite a few ranged/caster as well). if facing two v one on top zed can harass and farm quite easily from his tower baiting his opponents to charge him (some do and they never escape their mistake), until he is high enough level and they are low enough hp that his combos can affect them and get him at least one of them if not both (tho if done right you get both). when facing a single player top do to enemy jungler, his job is a bit easier, but he has to be more aware (tho with his living shadow escaping those pesky ganks are pretty easy). But doing that a zed can over power most opponents (like an op darius forexample and yes I have out burst a darius at same or similar levels in a 1v1 fight). or fighting something tankier like a wukong or a mundo or well you get the point most champions he faces he is able to out move and harass better and more often then them. (again part of this is all in how you build zed (more on that in a bit). Now, as for jungler most of you had it right he is by far a great jungler, he can clear as fast as a mundo and move around to lanes as easily as a eve. after all he is an assassin, and most of them are great junglers and gankers. I dun feel like this point needs to be pushed to much as ive jungled with zed without even using jungling items, wuts the point in that lantern on zed when you should be mobile enough to make it obsolete. ( i have a better item for life steal purposes(more on that after Bot lane zed). Bot lane zed, now most people try to frown upon a bot lane zed, saying **** like "he should jungle, hes not really an ADC (yes I have heard that and tbh i dun qualifie zed as an ADC, as zed relies more on his abilities with the few smacks from his AD in between CDs of spells. But tbh zed going bot is more OP then zed going MID, for the simple fact that bot provides a good or great zed waaaaaaaaay more feed. and usually most bot players are two squishy champs or a 1 squishy one some what tanky or supports (some squishy some tanky). either way if a zed has a good partner on bot the zed can feed himself and his partner with little to no probs (unless your fighting a good sora or sona (that takes a little bit of finesse and handling to get lane control but thats what makes it challenging i think)). In short zed, can play Any Lane (jungle included). Now at this point your all wondering ok ya this guy talks alot of smack and has a good line of bs about zed but how does he build zed to supposedly pull off these "miracles" . And here is where I break down zeds abilities a bit to help people understand that zed can ANTI-AP, ANTI-Tank, (pretty much ANTI anything). To start i use for runes : Attack speed runes (full attack speed seals, 7 attack speed glyphs: giving a total of 11% attack speed), Armor pen runes(6 Armor pen marks: for a total of 7.7 armor pen), and AD Runes(3 AD Quints, 3 AD Marks, 2 AD Glyphs: for a total of 10 AD. My masteries are 21 in Offense and 9 in Defense (Essentially everything on the left side of the offense tree except for summoners wrath, in the Defense 5 in the HP talents and 2 in the MR and 2 in the Armor). That stuff combined with boots of speed and 3 hp pots can let zed handle any lane at level 1 including jungling. Now for my full item build, with this build I get on zed Max CDR, MAX Armor pen or close to it, 40% crits at 250% crit damage (plus mastery bonus). and usually by end build i have between 400 and 500 AD depending on pots and barron, usually its around 420-440 ish. ive topped out with a pot iand barron at like 496 AD. Why CDR? simple zeds E is like around 3 seconds, with max CDR it gets down to around 2 i forget i dun pay full attention to it all the time but i know it should be either at a mx of 2.5 secs or a min of just under 2 maybe at 2. either way it allows you to pop off Two E spells before your ult pops. Why Max Arm Pen? Simple all of zeds abilities are PHYSICAL damage (except maybe ignite and one Item i use). So the armor pen scales across those spells allowing for near max damage when dealing damage with all spells and basic attacks. Why 40% crits? Simple it gives your basic attacks a better chance to make your ULT un stoppable. if lucky enough you can dish out 1250 min to maybe 2k damage on a single target before your ult pops, at max lvl your ult does (your AD + 50% of the damage you did. so your at 400 ad plus you just did (cuz of crits) about 2k and that guy got away with 300 hp or w/e but ur ult is about to pop. just poped at 400 + lets say at least 800. your ult just did around 1200 damage more if your target was a squishy champ like say teemo whose armor could be reduced to near 0 thanks to your armor pen. I made this build tho for one simple reason. to. kill. tanks. and I do it with these items: CDR Boots, a Youmuus, the blade of the ruined king (for two reasons at least, first it has life steal and decent damage plus a burn effect that helps compliment his passive, and second its active effect when used during zeds ult adds a min of 150 damage (plus half of your AD so if you have 400 ad it has a + 200 phjysicall damage buff with the 150.) thats like adding a 5th spell to your rotation. and then sometimes i dun even get to use it cuz the champ is to squishy lol but on tanks it helps rip their hp up makin them as simple to kill as a hot knife through warm butter.), then i get the % armor pen item putting me at 40% armor pen with that, after that a black cleaver for more CDR armor pen puting your armor pne at 43 flat, so max armor pen is 43 flat with 40%. a squishy champ like teemo usually only gets like 60 to 80 armor by lvl 18, 40% of 80 puts armor at about lets say 50, now we take the flat hes down to 7 armor. THis is just an example of what max armor pen can do for a zed. after that black cleaver we come to the final item. the infinity edge, whihc puts your crits at 40% at 250% damage. Now you have full build by this time tho your kills should be well over 20, (15 if you farm creep harder then heros) and your creep should be in the hundred range if not upper near two hundred. But this build allows for constant game management if you play the hero right and time your attacks. after all zed is an assassin he should be the 3rd or 5th person to join a team fight as he can be the deal maker or breaker when it comes to team fights. and placing your ult in a team fight is also crucial if oyu see some1 almost dead aim for the guy next to him and just use your e and Q to aoe down the nearly dead target. I have on multiple occasions with this build gotten penta kills (both on bots and people) as well as over ima say at least 85 - 90% of the times have gotten over 20 kills a game i have even broken 40 kills and multiple towers in a single game with this build. And so I sum up all this information with a name for this build and Here shall becreated a new ROLE! I call it: (drum roles) The Tank Shredder. adc? nah im going Tank shredder. To finalize i want to do a tank armor math quick to help support this new title (and zed shall be hence forth forever known as the true first TANK SHREDDER ROLE). Now most tanks get between 200 and like 350 armor. most ive seen tho usually get about 200 and go for mor hp then anythng else. so lets say the tank has 200 armor. at 40% that puts their armor at 110-120 armor, now we knock off the flat armor of 43, from lets say 120. that puts the tanks armor at 77. each spell and basic attack cuts through his armor down to 77 armor, and he has about 3500 maybe 4k hp. This is where the fun is, start out the fight with a couple of E and Q harrass knock him down by about a thousand. then fighting for a sec or two to recoup the energy pop your ult on him and go to town with your e (if you can pop a third shadow out before you ult you can hit him with three shurikens) then your Q plus the ruined blade of king active plus b4 the ult pops, pop another e, you should be able to kill him or close to it and be able to either walk away or chase him down for the few final hits. So in essence to you nay sayers, i hope this helps clear up, zed can do any lane, and I have created a new Role with this champ and the build that compliments, ik some of you will prolly think i a tard, but w/e any day any time i will rock any champ/person who doubts my tank shredding zed. Hope you all found some useful info in this. Its very long this is actually my first real post on the forum so enjoy.


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TheBadness

Senior Member

01-30-2013

to be a flippin ninja.

/thread


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TheBadness

Senior Member

01-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felderak View Post
After reading every1's comments about Zed and what he can and cannot do. I've decided to break zed down, using my custom build. (mix of wut u usually see on a zed and things that uve prolly never seen on a zed). First Lets address zed as mid: Alot of you are saying he is not an Anti-ap or anti mid type fighter. Here is where u are wrong (especially in the case of fighting a fiddle sticks). One of you said zed has no anti mid becuz he lacks 2 of the 3 components needed to handle mid (silence and burst). I will agree zed has no silence, but his burst if played right is way better and stronger then most mids at lower lvls (especially fiddle sticks). and based on that if done right later on his burst is so high that even if he dies to an AP target, his ULT will deal a finishing blow. Also, that one guys said that at level 6 he is a great ganker and roamer when playing mid. this is true, except you do not have to wait for 6, 4-5 any good zed can start harrassing other lanes or even causing successful ganks. At that point if is lane is handled he should have his slow and at least lvl 2 q for long range kills/harrass. fNow your wondering how can a zed keep up with an AP Burst. The answer is in the build you use, most people go for a little armor pen with as much AD as possible, normally this would be fine, but it is also a waste of his talents. (more on this later) Now, on to top lane zed. A couple of oyu feel he cannot keep up with most if not all top lane champions. This is also wrong, zed is perfect for top for several reasons, the first is his ability to farm creep and harass enemy champions. Zeds Q is by far one of the best harassment spells in the game for a melee. ( and quite a few ranged/caster as well). if facing two v one on top zed can harass and farm quite easily from his tower baiting his opponents to charge him (some do and they never escape their mistake), until he is high enough level and they are low enough hp that his combos can affect them and get him at least one of them if not both (tho if done right you get both). when facing a single player top do to enemy jungler, his job is a bit easier, but he has to be more aware (tho with his living shadow escaping those pesky ganks are pretty easy). But doing that a zed can over power most opponents (like an op darius forexample and yes I have out burst a darius at same or similar levels in a 1v1 fight). or fighting something tankier like a wukong or a mundo or well you get the point most champions he faces he is able to out move and harass better and more often then them. (again part of this is all in how you build zed (more on that in a bit). Now, as for jungler most of you had it right he is by far a great jungler, he can clear as fast as a mundo and move around to lanes as easily as a eve. after all he is an assassin, and most of them are great junglers and gankers. I dun feel like this point needs to be pushed to much as ive jungled with zed without even using jungling items, wuts the point in that lantern on zed when you should be mobile enough to make it obsolete. ( i have a better item for life steal purposes(more on that after Bot lane zed). Bot lane zed, now most people try to frown upon a bot lane zed, saying **** like "he should jungle, hes not really an ADC (yes I have heard that and tbh i dun qualifie zed as an ADC, as zed relies more on his abilities with the few smacks from his AD in between CDs of spells. But tbh zed going bot is more OP then zed going MID, for the simple fact that bot provides a good or great zed waaaaaaaaay more feed. and usually most bot players are two squishy champs or a 1 squishy one some what tanky or supports (some squishy some tanky). either way if a zed has a good partner on bot the zed can feed himself and his partner with little to no probs (unless your fighting a good sora or sona (that takes a little bit of finesse and handling to get lane control but thats what makes it challenging i think)). In short zed, can play Any Lane (jungle included). Now at this point your all wondering ok ya this guy talks alot of smack and has a good line of bs about zed but how does he build zed to supposedly pull off these "miracles" . And here is where I break down zeds abilities a bit to help people understand that zed can ANTI-AP, ANTI-Tank, (pretty much ANTI anything). To start i use for runes : Attack speed runes (full attack speed seals, 7 attack speed glyphs: giving a total of 11% attack speed), Armor pen runes(6 Armor pen marks: for a total of 7.7 armor pen), and AD Runes(3 AD Quints, 3 AD Marks, 2 AD Glyphs: for a total of 10 AD. My masteries are 21 in Offense and 9 in Defense (Essentially everything on the left side of the offense tree except for summoners wrath, in the Defense 5 in the HP talents and 2 in the MR and 2 in the Armor). That stuff combined with boots of speed and 3 hp pots can let zed handle any lane at level 1 including jungling. Now for my full item build, with this build I get on zed Max CDR, MAX Armor pen or close to it, 40% crits at 250% crit damage (plus mastery bonus). and usually by end build i have between 400 and 500 AD depending on pots and barron, usually its around 420-440 ish. ive topped out with a pot iand barron at like 496 AD. Why CDR? simple zeds E is like around 3 seconds, with max CDR it gets down to around 2 i forget i dun pay full attention to it all the time but i know it should be either at a mx of 2.5 secs or a min of just under 2 maybe at 2. either way it allows you to pop off Two E spells before your ult pops. Why Max Arm Pen? Simple all of zeds abilities are PHYSICAL damage (except maybe ignite and one Item i use). So the armor pen scales across those spells allowing for near max damage when dealing damage with all spells and basic attacks. Why 40% crits? Simple it gives your basic attacks a better chance to make your ULT un stoppable. if lucky enough you can dish out 1250 min to maybe 2k damage on a single target before your ult pops, at max lvl your ult does (your AD + 50% of the damage you did. so your at 400 ad plus you just did (cuz of crits) about 2k and that guy got away with 300 hp or w/e but ur ult is about to pop. just poped at 400 + lets say at least 800. your ult just did around 1200 damage more if your target was a squishy champ like say teemo whose armor could be reduced to near 0 thanks to your armor pen. I made this build tho for one simple reason. to. kill. tanks. and I do it with these items: CDR Boots, a Youmuus, the blade of the ruined king (for two reasons at least, first it has life steal and decent damage plus a burn effect that helps compliment his passive, and second its active effect when used during zeds ult adds a min of 150 damage (plus half of your AD so if you have 400 ad it has a + 200 phjysicall damage buff with the 150.) thats like adding a 5th spell to your rotation. and then sometimes i dun even get to use it cuz the champ is to squishy lol but on tanks it helps rip their hp up makin them as simple to kill as a hot knife through warm butter.), then i get the % armor pen item putting me at 40% armor pen with that, after that a black cleaver for more CDR armor pen puting your armor pne at 43 flat, so max armor pen is 43 flat with 40%. a squishy champ like teemo usually only gets like 60 to 80 mr by lvl 18, 40% of 80 puts armor at about lets say 50, now we take the flat hes down to 7 armor. THis is just an example of what max armor pen can do for a zed. after that black cleaver we come to the final item. the infinity edge, whihc puts your crits at 40% at 250% damage. Now you have full build by this time tho your kills should be well over 20, (15 if you farm creep harder then heros) and your creep should be in the hundred range if not upper near two hundred. But this build allows for constant game management if you play the hero right and time your attacks. after all zed is an assassin he should be the 3rd or 5th person to join a team fight as he can be the deal maker or breaker when it comes to team fights. and placing your ult in a team fight is also crucial if oyu see some1 almost dead aim for the guy next to him and just use your e and Q to aoe down the nearly dead target. I have on multiple occasions with this build gotten penta kills (both on bots and people) as well as over ima say at least 85 - 90% of the times have gotten over 20 kills a game i have even broken 40 kills and multiple towers in a single game with this build. And so I sum up all this information with a name for this build and Here shall becreated a new ROLE! I call it: (drum roles) The Tank Shredder. adc? nah im going Tank shredder. To finalize i want to do a tank armor math quick to help support this new title (and zed shall be hence forth forever known as the true first TANK SHREDDER ROLE). Now most tanks get between 200 and like 350 armor. most ive seen tho usually get about 200 and go for mor hp then anythng else. so lets say the tank has 200 armor. at 40% that puts their armor at 110-120 armor, now we knock off the flat armor of 43, from lets say 120. that puts the tanks armor at 77. each spell and basic attack cuts through his armor down to 77 armor, and he has about 3500 maybe 4k. This is where the fun is, start out the fight with a couple of E and Q harrass knock him down by about a thousand. then fighting for a sec or two to recoup the energy pop your ult on him and go to town with your e (if you can pop a third shadow out before you ult you can hit him with three shurikens) then your Q plus the ruined blade of king active plus b4 the ult pops, pop another e, you should be able to kill him or close to it and be able to either walk away or chase him down for the few final hits. So in essence to you nay sayers, i hope this helps clear up, zed can do any lane, and I have created a new Role with this char and the build that compliments, ik some of you will prolly think i a tard, but w/e any day any time i will rock any champ/person who doubts my tank shredding zed. Hope you all found some useful info in this. Its very long this is actually my first real post on the forum so enjoy.
I think my eye's just suffered a stroke.