Peli's Fiora Rework Ideas

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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraZyJaVieR View Post
i think it sounds good but just add more range to her Blade Waltz from 400 to 600? or even 550 !!

thats all she needs
no, she needs a more convinient utility. You could change it to 800 and she'd still have about the same issues


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
But her kit...its just so bad...
I agree. All style, no strength.
Quote:
So I've been looking at her kit and I think I've got a good rework here.
I wanted to keep her skills unique, so that she isn't a clone of any other champion. I also wanted her to have the same feel that she currently has but allow her to fill that same role competitively.
Agreed.
Quote:
The first thing I wanted to address was her passive. Her passive is horrid in it's current state.But at the same time I wanted to keep the feel of her passive the same, with the stacks of passive on each hit stacking up to 4 times against players.
So here is the new passive I came up with:
Duelist - Fiora increases her healing and regeneration effects on her 6% each time she deals damage. Striking champions will cause this effect to stack up to 4 times. (24% max)
This will improve her natural sustain from health regeneration in similar fashion to how it is currently and will scale with any additional hp regeneration and lifesteal that she buys making her passive relevant later on.
I am assuming that you are keeping the 6 second limit.
I can't agree with this one. Your version scales better after she has Lifesteal but is abysmally worse at level 1, when she is being bullied out of lane.
Here's my version:
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Duelist
+ Fiora heals (75% Health Regen) each time she deals physical damage.
+ This effect can occur once per second hitting champions and once per 4 seconds hitting minions or monsters.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm quite proud of this idea. Nothing else uses the Health Regen stat and it will make Fiora unique.
The math will give Fiora 5 healed health per 4 seconds at level 1 (unless she is trading). This is supposed to look like the Doran's Blade passive. However, you now have incentive to buy those Rejuvenation Beads. 2 Beads + pots would be a legit opening for her. If she has a support ally with her during laning, they can boost her sustain twice with an early Emblem of Valor. There is also a nice bump in sustain with rushing a Tiamat without needing the Vamp Scepter for a Hydra.
Keep in mind that this is designed to leave out Lifesteal and other sources of heals. That is intended. A Fiora build that uses IE+PD+BT should have no problems with sustain without "double dipping" into her passive.
Quote:
The first thing I did was combine the riposte and lunge actives into one skill. It's very similar to Pantheon's Aegis of Zonia now, but with no stun, but can be activated twice. However she no longer deals any damage when she parries an attack.
Lunge: Range 600 CD: 16/14/12/10/8 Cost 60 mana
Active: Fiora dashes forward to strike her target, dealing physical damage. After she performs a lunge she anticipates a counter attack and will parry the next basic attack made against her. Fiora can perform the dash and parry a second time within 4 seconds at no mana cost.
Physical Damage: 40, 65, 90, 115,140 (+60% bonus AD)
Maximum Physical Damage: 80/130/180/230/280 (+120% bonus AD)
Must disagree here. I think that Riposte should not be combined with Lunge as you suggest. As to the standard version, I have no idea what Riot was thinking. Compared to Irelia's Bladesurge, something just doesn't add up. Here's mine:
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Lunge
+ Range: 600 Cooldown: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 Cost: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 mana
+ Fiora dashes to her target. If that target is an enemy, she will attack it automatically.
+ Fiora can perform the dash a second time within 4 seconds at no mana cost.
+ Fiora can dash over units but not terrain.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it deals no damage now. However, you get much, much better utility out of this. You can escape by dashing to a minion, ward or ally. Note, tho, that the range is short compared to other dashes. Two auto attacks have often been much better for Fiora than two Lunges because the old version never applied on-hit effects.
Quote:
Now we've freed up a skill slot for something new.
I still wanted to keep her bonus AD as part of her kit, but Fiora's kit also needs some sustaining power and a counter for crowd control.
Discipline and Determination:
Cool Down: 12 (all ranks) Cost 45 mana
Passive: Fiora's attack damage is increased by 15/20/25/30/35.
Active: Fiora consumes her Duelist stacks (passive) for an immediate heal gaining 18/36/54/72/90 health per stack consumed. For the next 4 seconds Fiora also gains Discipline and Determination reducing the duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, snares, and roots placed on Fiora 22/29/36/43/50%
As above, I don't like Riposte being moved off of her W. I don't like the normal version either.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Riposte
+ Cooldown: 20 for all ranks Cost: 45 mana
+ Passive - Fiora's attack damage is increased by 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35.
+ She loses this bonus while Riposte is on cooldown.
+ Passive - After an enemy champion deals damage 4 times near Fiora, she gains a shield.
+ The shield blocks the next normal/enhanced attack from an enemy champion.
+ The shield expires if she cannot see an enemy champion for more than 2 seconds.
+ Active - Fiora gains a shield that blocks all normal/enhanced attacks from enemy champions.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a little like Pantheon's shield and a little like Teemo's movement. Basically, if Fiora can observe an enemy for a short time, she can predict the attack and block it. She can't do anything about spells or items, tho. The buff is lost with line of sight to simulate the element of surprise. This version also has no value for tower diving or jungling. The active is her way of holding a defensive stance. Hence, she doesn't hit as hard.

Quote:
Finally I gave a small QoL buff to burst of speed. I switched the skill around. Fiora now immediately gains the movement speed, and gains attack speed when she strikes an enemy. This will allow her to escape ganks, chase, and improve her jungle speed. But the over all effect hasn't changed.
Burst of Speed:
Cool down 15/14/13/12/11 Cost: 55
Fiora gains 21/27/33/40/47 % movement speed for 3 seconds. For each basic attack or lunge she performs while burst of speed is active she gains 20/25/30/35/40 % attack speed stacking up to 3 times.
Upon kill or assist burst of speed's CD is reset.
I approve!
Quote:
I didn't touch blade waltz at all. I think it's fine the way it is.
I approve!
Quote:
Let know what you think!
-Peli
You have good ideas! How do you like mine?


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-23-2013

I'd be happy with some of your changes. I think maybe your new passive is a little OP since you could get hp regen quints. So with 2 beads and quints you'd be sitting at 23.6 , you could get seals too for a couple more (not worth it).

But 23.6 hp/sec would probably be a really strong...

Even 23.6hp/4sec is considerable.

You're right that mine would be weak at the beginning. But Fiora is a carry. And with these changes she could get pretty scary mid to late game. So don't think its a bad thing that she'd still have some weaknesses, namely her start, just as long as her team fight is strong.

I don't like your lunge. Mainly just because I think it would work with wards...and I hate that mechanic and I think that losing the base damage on lunge would be a big deal for trading early on.

I don't know about your reposte. It seems pretty bad. I think the base damage went away on it? The passive AD goes away while on CD...it seems pretty weak to only get the little bit of AD for the skill points beyond the first, especially when on cd that AD goes away.

Good ideas, could use some tuning. But not bad.


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Aenco

Junior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
I agree. All style, no strength.

Agreed.

I am assuming that you are keeping the 6 second limit.
I can't agree with this one. Your version scales better after she has Lifesteal but is abysmally worse at level 1, when she is being bullied out of lane.
Here's my version:
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Duelist
+ Fiora heals (75% Health Regen) each time she deals physical damage.
+ This effect can occur once per second hitting champions and once per 4 seconds hitting minions or monsters.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm quite proud of this idea. Nothing else uses the Health Regen stat and it will make Fiora unique.
The math will give Fiora 5 healed health per 4 seconds at level 1 (unless she is trading). This is supposed to look like the Doran's Blade passive. However, you now have incentive to buy those Rejuvenation Beads. 2 Beads + pots would be a legit opening for her. If she has a support ally with her during laning, they can boost her sustain twice with an early Emblem of Valor. There is also a nice bump in sustain with rushing a Tiamat without needing the Vamp Scepter for a Hydra.
Keep in mind that this is designed to leave out Lifesteal and other sources of heals. That is intended. A Fiora build that uses IE+PD+BT should have no problems with sustain without "double dipping" into her passive.

Must disagree here. I think that Riposte should not be combined with Lunge as you suggest. As to the standard version, I have no idea what Riot was thinking. Compared to Irelia's Bladesurge, something just doesn't add up. Here's mine:
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Lunge
+ Range: 600 Cooldown: 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 Cost: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 mana
+ Fiora dashes to her target. If that target is an enemy, she will attack it automatically.
+ Fiora can perform the dash a second time within 4 seconds at no mana cost.
+ Fiora can dash over units but not terrain.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, it deals no damage now. However, you get much, much better utility out of this. You can escape by dashing to a minion, ward or ally. Note, tho, that the range is short compared to other dashes. Two auto attacks have often been much better for Fiora than two Lunges because the old version never applied on-hit effects.

As above, I don't like Riposte being moved off of her W. I don't like the normal version either.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ Riposte
+ Cooldown: 20 for all ranks Cost: 45 mana
+ Passive - Fiora's attack damage is increased by 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35.
+ She loses this bonus while Riposte is on cooldown.
+ Passive - After an enemy champion deals damage 4 times near Fiora, she gains a shield.
+ The shield blocks the next normal/enhanced attack from an enemy champion.
+ The shield expires if she cannot see an enemy champion for more than 2 seconds.
+ Active - Fiora gains a shield that blocks all normal/enhanced attacks from enemy champions.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a little like Pantheon's shield and a little like Teemo's movement. Basically, if Fiora can observe an enemy for a short time, she can predict the attack and block it. She can't do anything about spells or items, tho. The buff is lost with line of sight to simulate the element of surprise. This version also has no value for tower diving or jungling. The active is her way of holding a defensive stance. Hence, she doesn't hit as hard.


I approve!

I approve!

You have good ideas! How do you like mine?
The OP of this thread had good ideas. They are balanced and make sense. Yours do not.

The Q and E ideas from the OP are great.

Fiora is based off the sport of fencing.. In fencing there are 4 techniques: attack, parry, feint and lunge. 3 of those 4 exist on Fiora -- Attack = Right Click; Parry = W; Lunge = Q.

Having said that, it only makes sense to give Fiora a taunt (Feint). Considering that feinting it's part of the sport she's modeled after, as well as her personality of a duelist - someone who picks fights (taunting).

How Riot could add Feint is with her W (assuming the Q change the OP suggested). Buff her base ability values of Q and her Healing Passive. Then make her a new W that Feints the target.

Feint
Fiora feints her target. ALL physical damage Fiora sustains counter attacks to the Feinted target. -- Feint acts like a taunt.
150 range.
90 / 95 / 100 / 105 / 110 mana
0.5 / 1.0 / 1.5 / 2.0 / 2.5 second duration
28/26/24/22/20 second cooldown

This resolves her squishiness. Resolves her being kited. Makes are a MUCH better duelist. Gives her a much needed CC. Makes her still a threat if she's behind. Gives her time to actually get the benefit of her E. Takes the focus off her in teamfights (if she Feinted the carry that carry will probably die if the team goes for Fiora).


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-31-2013

The Feint idea is neat.

I'm not so sure 2.5 seconds of physical damage immunity (not to mention reflection) would be balanced.

Seems pretty strong.

But like I've said before, any change to Fiora would be a welcomed one.


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Invisibleally

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Senior Member

01-31-2013

Peligrad: ...But her kit...its just so bad... ...She's down there with the likes of Karma and Heimerdinger...
Whoops, you accidentally said 'bad' instead of 'exceptionally great'.

Karma isn't bad, just underplayed. Heimerdinger is marvelous and can take on almost anyone. With good teammates Heimer is nearly unstoppable.



Complete Immortality Based On Attack Speed - Fiora increases her healing and regeneration effects on her 6% each time she deals damage. Striking champions will cause this effect to stack up to 4 times. (24% max)
>>at max AS: 60% health per second

Impossibly powerful defense. If Fiora has 2k health and 50 armor/resist, you'd have to deal 2,500 damage in less than second (assuming she only has 1 attack per second).

If it is balance you seek, alter the math on the existing skill- and try to remember it doesn't have to completely heal you in 10 seconds to be fantastic sustain. Garen's passive takes 10 seconds per 7% health restored, and that's very strong.


I can't go on. I don't want to be mean to you and it upsets me to look at buffs for a character that's already too strong. The other abilities have similar issues. I tried to change my response to be constructive-ish, but I know some of what I put is a little bit abrasive, so I'm sorry about that. I only meant it to be amusing, not mean toward you.

**EDIT: Ah, I feel a little idiotic now, but I simply misread the passive. I still think it's way WAY too strong, but it isn't ... 'impossibly powerful. I could erase what I wrote but, hell, I'll just leave it and hopefully you still find it a little amusing (even though it's a glaring mistake on my part)


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naotasan

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Why are we talking about Fiora reworks now? wtf?
What about all the other champions like Kassadin and Karma?


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-31-2013

So...dilemma...

I can't figure out who is more idiotic...

The guy on the radio this morning who said that sharks are mammals, not fish...

or the last two posters...


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Peligrad

Senior Member

02-01-2013

b
u
m
p


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IBastardI

Senior Member

02-01-2013

i disagree in a couple of things.

- Her W should stop any kind of attack damage, also it should counter any melee skill effect.
For example if udyr comes and try to hit fiora and stun her she should be able to counter this effect, but she shouldn't be able to return a range skill effect. Thats more realist and it make sense.

- The passive damage of her W should be incorpored to her base stats.

- Her passive should be completely reworked. The rate sucks, the time it last sucks and itīs completely useless in a fight.
The most frustrating experience in this game is picking fiora and lane against garen and watch how that idiot only has to stand there and regenerate like 5 times quicker than you risking your life killing minions and getting ganked.