Peli's Fiora Rework Ideas

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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-18-2013

For those of you who think Fiora is where she needs to be... or even close to it.

I'd like to direct you to RoG's tier lists by Elementz.

Like all tier lists, this isn't gospel, but this guy does know what he is talking about.

Look where Fiora is on both the competitive and solo que lists... tier 4...tier 5... on the solo she's at the bottom of the lowest tier...

With KARMA and with HEIMER! Two champions that undeniably need reworks (and are getting them soon).

Fiora is the WORST AD CHAMPION IN THE GAME according to this tier list. THE WORST.

Please Riot... do something for Fiora...

http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/solo-tier-list
http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-li...tive-tier-list


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Ayestes

Senior Member

01-18-2013

I've followed Elementz Tier list for ages and while it is a good resource even Elementz himself admits it's not something to make balance decisions on. That said, I do agree Fiora needs some changes in form of buffs. She is however, viable to play at a high level where is right now. Viable isn't necessarily competitive though, and her kit is very lacking in comparison to others.

I mean I agree, please Riot do something with Fiora, but I think Elementz is underestimating her in that list. Which is what I think the general community does. She's not top tier by any means and she needs a boost, but she's not at the very bottom either.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-18-2013

You of course are entitled to have an opinion. Personally, I think she's less competative than even the champions below her on the lists.

Not only is her kit utter trash, but she doesn't fit the meta either....even the s3 meta has no place for a melee carry with an atrocious early game, no escape, and no sustain...

At least Karma and Heimer are decent in lane and provide their team with some support. And Sanj scales really well late game if she can get there...

What does Fiora have? She sucks early game because she's a carry style champion. But with no cc resistance she also sucks late game...

So she has no up side at all...

How can you possibly say she's viable at high level? When was the last time you saw her in a tourny? Never?

Look at her %played and %win rate at the platinum level on lolking some time...

45% chance to win...and less than 2% played...

So even as a counter pick she can't win half her games...

It doesn't get worse than that...


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Crumches

Junior Member

01-18-2013

I used to do pretty decent with her when i was like level 15 but when i played her after that people juts dominated me. I feel that these changes or at least some changes should be made to her kit.


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Steeleye70

Junior Member

01-19-2013

I admit, the changes are incredible. But if these changes were to be made. Ratios and base damages have to be nerfed... Sadly. I play Fiora too, but this new Fiora just makes her sound like an unstoppable Mundo with a dash ability.

Lunge: Range 600 CD: 16/14/12/10/8 Cost 60 mana
After she performs a lunge she anticipates a counter attack and will parry the next basic attack made against her. Fiora can perform the dash and parry a second time within 4 seconds at no mana cost.
Maximum Physical Damage: 80/130/180/230/280 (+120% bonus AD)
I've played Fiora in ranked all the time. And its not hard to get firstblood when I max this ability. But adding a parry...TWO parries, if timed correctly. In addition to it having a 8 second cd. There has to be a compromise.

Discipline and Determination:
Passive: Fiora's attack damage is increased by 15/20/25/30/35.

Active: Fiora consumes her Duelist stacks (passive) for an immediate heal gaining 18/36/54/72/90 health per stack consumed. For the next 4 seconds Fiora also gains Discipline and Determination reducing the duration of stuns, slows, taunts, fears, snares, and roots placed on Fiora 22/29/36/43/50%


Well the heal is a great idea! But with a 50% tenacity bonus? I guess 4 seconds is a reasonable amount. But I think something completely different could be created. Like I said, this champion already has a dash, parry, and invulnerability. Adding a tenacity bonus makes her too powerful. Regardless, a heal is nice. Just gotta add something different :/

Burst of Speed:
Cool down 15/14/13/12/11 Cost: 55

Fiora gains 21/27/33/40/47 % movement speed for 3 seconds. For each basic attack or lunge she performs while burst of speed is active she gains 20/25/30/35/40 % attack speed stacking up to 3 times.

Upon kill or assist burst of speed's CD is reset.


I love all the thoughts put into this, I thought this was real rework notes at first. But combining this with Discipline and Determination I thought this was similar to Evelyn's Burst of Speed, giving her instant movement speed and removing current slows. In my opinion I think reducing the movement speed given is necessary, but giving and lunges or attacks back the extra movement speed and attack speed.
When I play Fiora, it really bugs me when Burst of Speed doesn't even give me any real movement speed without taking the time to attack something. It forces Fiora to fight, and usually get caught.

So here is the new passive I came up with:

Duelist - Fiora increases her healing and regeneration effects on her 6% each time she deals damage. Striking champions will cause this effect to stack up to 4 times. (24% max)


Well I see you're trying to keep Fiora along the guidelines of her usual skillset. But it sounds similar to adding either extra lifesteal, because people don't enjoy 1v1 standoffs with Fiora with a bloodthirster. People are already complaining. OR, adding 24% extra healing to her healing ability. [90x4=360] [360x.24= 86.4(360+86.4=446 HP)
In my opinion, I think you either have to remake Fiora's passive completely, or you need to rework and change 1 or 2 of her abilities to suit Fiora's unique fighting style. As a compromise.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Well, without the ability to actually play test this, its all speculation as far as numbers go. It's very possible that some numbers adjustment would be needed.

I appreciate the feedback though.

I will say, that Fiora is a very selfish champion. She doesn't bring any team utility, she doesn't support allies in any way. She doesn't even have a CC.

So to compensate for that, having her a little stronger on the dueling side is necessary, in my opinion.

Even with the buffs, she's still an assassin/carry type champion, who would be very easy to focus down. I honestly don't think she'd see a lot of play in higher ELOs because she still wouldn't bring anything but damage to a team and its sustained damage, not burst. And she needs to auto attack to do it (in melee).

These changes would make her play like any other assassin. You fight her 1v1 when she has all her CDs, you die.

It's no different than a Xin, Jax, Akali, LB, Lee, Panth, Kha'Zix, or Zed...

If you try to 1v1 any of them, you'll likely get your @ss handed to you...but put them in a team fight and suddenly they aren't a big deal anymore...

Any champion that relies on the life steal mechanic to survive is high susceptible to being kited and CC'd. Even with these changes, it would still be true for Fiora.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-23-2013

bumpidy


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jcurant

Junior Member

01-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
Burst of Speed:

Cool down 15/14/13/12/11 Cost: 55

Fiora gains 21/27/33/40/47 % movement speed for 3 seconds. For each basic attack or lunge she performs while burst of speed is active she gains 20/25/30/35/40 % attack speed stacking up to 3 times.

Upon kill or assist burst of speed's CD is reset.
-Peli
The problem with structuring the ability like this is that you'll struggle to actually stack the bonus attack speed up within the first three seconds unless you have built AS items to get over 1.0 AS, something which Fiora's current kit has no need of because of this ability.

I think this ability makes more sense the way it was. However, I'd love some synergy built into her abilities, Q and E interact to some extent currently for gap closing and chasing

Also, to those who were saying that this Movement buff is OP, it's actually only 2% higher than the movement buff she gets from this ability because the 15% stacks 3 times. This ability is basically unchanged, just reversed.

I'd like to see her receive some kind of flat damage reduction when all her abilities are on cd. Or perhaps her W being a 2-3 sec block of all basic attacks and on hit effects, similar to Jax but without the stun and without the damage return.

I like the way you reworked her passive, but honestly the loss of riposte damage may actually make her weaker in lane, she will no longer be a hard counter to people like GP.

All in all she's just a difficult character to rework.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

01-23-2013

Remember that lunges give you the stacks as well as auto attacks.

So it would be actually really easy to get the full stacks by simply activating burst of speed then lunging (1), auto attack (2), then either lunge again for 3 or auto attack again (which wouldn't take long because you've already got 2 stacks of AS).

So...I disagree...

It's much better for fiora this way...because you can use it to gap close and to escape...where as how it currently is, it's very difficult to use defensively or for utility.

Not to mention youmuu's ghostblade, which is core on fiora (and all melee carries) which gives a lot of AS over a short duration, which would also lead to easily getting benefit of BoS.


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CraZyJaVieR

Member

01-23-2013

i think it sounds good but just add more range to her Blade Waltz from 400 to 600? or even 550 !!

thats all she needs