Loading Border Should Be Based on Queue

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Frychikn

Senior Member

11-15-2012

please get rid of the borders.

its never a good experience when people say "oh we have a low ranked player on our team" and it makes me want to talk **** when i beat somebody with a higher border than i.


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Gløry

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
Why don't you just add additional info to explain where the border comes from?

A simple 3, S, or 5 would do the trick tastefully. If I achieved diamond in more than one I could select which one I wanted to show off, or you could devise a priority system based on which queue you were in at the time.

Basically I feel like the hard work I put in on my 5s team isn't valued, and I feel like the achievement I earned in it is very different than someone getting platinum in 3s, which is a completely different game mode that many would argue is a less-balanced play experience. I'd just like some delineation.

P.S., your poise and professionalism are showing, yegg. keep it up, i appreciate it


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I See Stars

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Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
Accuracy is not matching up with 4 random people that hate each other. Ranked 5v5 teams show a lot more about the player than pubstomping in Solo Queue.


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KCIV4

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
borders dont cause toxic play. no diff than honor badges. the only thing borders do is cause toxic players to rage ingame and then make them easier to report. borders if anything show who the real toxic players are.


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Nip the Zephyr

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Just to give my two cents, I've had no one complaining about my border yet, but haven't played many games yet. I like the borders though, and hope we keep them even if there is a small bit of harassment.


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Xephen

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

I have not had anyone complain about my silver border. Nor have I had anyone use the borders to belittle someone. Now they still be little people for all the normal reasons just not the borders.


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Frychikn

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glry View Post
Why don't you just add additional info to explain where the border comes from?

A simple 3, S, or 5 would do the trick tastefully. If I achieved diamond in more than one I could select which one I wanted to show off, or you could devise a priority system based on which queue you were in at the time.

Basically I feel like the hard work I put in on my 5s team isn't valued, and I feel like the achievement I earned in it is very different than someone getting platinum in 3s, which is a completely different game mode that many would argue is a less-balanced play experience. I'd just like some delineation.

P.S., your poise and professionalism are showing, yegg. keep it up, i appreciate it
why do you feel people have to see your border to have your s2 be valued?

all borders does is make players who arnt plat or diamond feel like ****. and it just starts troll wars when a lower border beats a diamond or plat player in lane. conversations such as "how in the world did you get plat and i didnt" pop up.

borders just bring toxicity to this game.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOGAHMAS View Post
Its a reward. That reward is what many of us pushed so hard for in the end. I dont care if you think road kill can get Gold or not. I personally last season was proud to get bronze. To get silver and Gold this season means I am far from great, but at least Im improving. I pushed hard for my banners, and wold like them to properly reflect them in the que I play in. If Im in 3s.. show 3s Border, solo and 5s as well. They should reflect that. As far as abuse and people flaming, they will do that no matter what. Not fair to those of us that dont flame and would like to be reflected for our achievements or lack there of.
That reward however, shouldn't make you "better" than anyone else. Lets say I have my silver border, and I get paired with 4 Bronze borders (pretty sure there might be one Bronze player NA). Does that mean I am "better" than them? No, it could mean a ton of different things, like, I played 10 ranked games, didn't go 0-10 so I get a silver border. What about those who were gold at one point during the season, but then they dropped due to ELO decay or something, and then the rewards came out and they just couldn't find time to play ranked. Does your gold border make you "better" than them? What about if you have your Gold border and you go 0-5 in your lane, but I have a silver and I go 5-0? Did you carry me?

I honestly, don't think that the borders should be shown. This is because when you have your border and you go into games, people are instantly going to judge your playskill based on your border. It's the NATURAL thing to do. When I go into a game with someone who has a lower border than me, I am going to assume they are pretty bad. If they have a better border than me, then I'm going to expect them to be able to carry pretty hard. It's natural. The borders just give people a reason to flame. They might not have had one before...


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Eryn

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

agreed


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Vantooth

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
This input if much appreciated, me and my friends are all silver in both 3's and solo queue so we didn't know about that. Also, I do believe for normal 5v5 solo queue being shown is better since it would be more representative of what you can give to team, since you don't have as much synergies as you usual team members. For 3's I'd like to see a solo queue being introduced so we can have those boarder in normal. Just keep every ranked queue their respective boarder.
So for short, I agree with you on all points. I'll continue to stay tuned in to know what is going to happen about those boarder. I hope for this to be resolved for season 3. Also, anything about 3v3's team tournaments?