Anyone get Dragon Tamer Lulu?

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Menea6587

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Alright - this is helpful. Basically, your thought is that a long-standing silence has made this a sore issue, and that sore issue leads to the feeling of unfair pricing on objects if that price is unexpected or higher. In this case, it would be less related to Dragon Tamer Lulu, and more with our historical messaging about pricing?

I know Hippalus has talked about a lot of these issues, maybe just not this specific one. I don't understand pricing details much myself, but I can see if I can get him to come talk about this one.

Additionally, I know there's some people saying "this isn't worth that price" - I understand that feedback. What I didn't understand was "it's worth it, but I feel ripped off."
If you buy something at the maximum amount you are willing to buy, it was worth it, but you got "ripped off."
In economics, two people will agree to trade if someone's willing to buy equals or exceeds the other part's willing to sell. Almost always, the willing to sell is much higher than the willing to buy in a consumer market.

Example: I will buy a skin for $10.00. Riot is much more willing to sell skins, so they price it at $7.50. My willing to buy exceeds the willing to sell, therefore I buy the good.

This difference in the willingnesses is called, "surplus." Surplus is very important to a market because having no surplus means that people aren't as happy. Essentially, surplus = happiness in this case.

I bought Lulu's skin for pretty the maximum willingness I would buy a given skin. It's worth it; I didn't get any surplus out of it though. That lack of surplus is what a bunch of people are feeling in addition to the fear and stick shock.


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Warbéar

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Speak with your God damned dollars and stop being sheep.

God damn it, this is the reason why we're on a 15th Call of Duty.

I hate all of you.


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EnvyDragon

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Alright - this is helpful. Basically, your thought is that a long-standing silence has made this a sore issue, and that sore issue leads to the feeling of unfair pricing on objects if that price is unexpected or higher. In this case, it would be less related to Dragon Tamer Lulu, and more with our historical messaging about pricing?

I know Hippalus has talked about a lot of these issues, maybe just not this specific one. I don't understand pricing details much myself, but I can see if I can get him to come talk about this one.

Additionally, I know there's some people saying "this isn't worth that price" - I understand that feedback. What I didn't understand was "it's worth it, but I feel ripped off."
My thought is, the most recent 975 skins have been of massively higher quality than a lot of the older 975 skins. It makes sense that as quality increases, the price increases. My concern, however, is that the 1350 price point was introduced for Mecha Kha'Zix, which I consider a special case.

What Mecha Kha'Zix included:
-New skin and model, obviously, including all Evolution iterations.
-New particles on ALL attacks. Like, strikingly, shockingly different particles. He fires freaking rockets for his W.
-New passive indicators, both for detecting isolated enemies and for enemies to see that they're isolated.
-New sounds and vocal distortion.
(It's practically a whole different champion, except that the gameplay mechanics are the same.)

What Dragon Tamer Lulu includes:
-New skin and model.
-New companion model, new Polymorph model.
-Particles go from blue to light purple. (I had to look very closely to actually see if anything was different.)

So, while I can say that the model and textures for Dragon Tamer Lulu are incredibly intricate and highly detailed, there's no way I think of this as a 1350 skin given the precedent. If you make the decision (publically!) that detail alone is worth a higher price point, then I can accept that as a natural evolution of your business. Y'know, like inflation. But I think Dragon Tamer Lulu is objectively nowhere near as much bang-for-your-buck as Mecha Kha'Zix is, and that's why a lot of people are frustrated.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that 1350 is probably what the skin is worth, but people feel ripped off because they aren't getting as much value as they were with the previous 1350 skin. The quantity of features are very much 975-level. It feels like if you went out to a coffee shop and found that their Small suddenly cost as much as their Large used to. It doesn't matter if their coffee got way better overnight, you still feel like you're being gouged.


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Krimson62

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menea6587 View Post
If you buy something at the maximum amount you are willing to buy, it was worth it, but you got "ripped off."
In economics, two people will agree to trade if someone's willing to buy equals or exceeds the other part's willing to sell. Almost always, the willing to sell is much higher than the willing to buy in a consumer market.

Example: I will buy a skin for $10.00. Riot is much more willing to sell skins, so they price it at $7.50. My willing to buy exceeds the willing to sell, therefore I buy the good.

This difference in the willingnesses is called, "surplus." Surplus is very important to a market because having no surplus means that people aren't as happy. Essentially, surplus = happiness in this case.

I bought Lulu's skin for pretty the maximum willingness I would buy a given skin. It's worth it; I didn't get any surplus out of it though. That lack of surplus is what a bunch of people are feeling in addition to the fear and stick shock.


Ever go to a sporting event and buy a hotdog or beer? It's way overpriced, but you still buy it because it's nice to have a hotdog and beer and watch the game. Now you enjoy the stuff, but you know you got ripped off paying 15 bucks for a beer and hot dog.

sure you don't NEED it to enjoy the game. but it adds to the experience.

Edit: the coffee shop reference in your edit is much better. same coffee, higher price.


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thenamesed

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Does anyone here use custom skins? One way to beat buying skins. If you don't care who sees it though other than yourself.


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Menea6587

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson62 View Post
Ever go to a sporting event and buy a hotdog or beer? It's way overpriced, but you still buy it because it's nice to have a hotdog and beer and watch the game. Now you enjoy the stuff, but you know you got ripped off paying 15 bucks for a beer and hot dog.

sure you don't NEED it to enjoy the game. but it adds to the experience.
Pretty much.

If everyone knew what everyone else was paying for their flight, people would be pretty disgruntled for the same reason of lack of surplus.


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Pomf Pomf Pomf

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Alright - this is helpful. Basically, your thought is that a long-standing silence has made this a sore issue, and that sore issue leads to the feeling of unfair pricing on objects if that price is unexpected or higher. In this case, it would be less related to Dragon Tamer Lulu, and more with our historical messaging about pricing?

I know Hippalus has talked about a lot of these issues, maybe just not this specific one. I don't understand pricing details much myself, but I can see if I can get him to come talk about this one.

Additionally, I know there's some people saying "this isn't worth that price" - I understand that feedback. What I didn't understand was "it's worth it, but I feel ripped off."
I think that the reason people think its not worth the price, is because if they buy a 1350 skin, its telling riot that if they price at 1350 they will be bought, thus more 1350 skins being released later, I personally think that 520/975/1820 should be the three prices and that 975 should be a good/great skin's price, 520 for the meh/recolor skins, and 1820 for skins with new voiceovers/every skilleffect changed/etc.


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Epicbethyname

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Be honest...did your Chinese overlords put you up to this Riot?


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Aeoh

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Alright - this is helpful. Basically, your thought is that a long-standing silence has made this a sore issue, and that sore issue leads to the feeling of unfair pricing on objects if that price is unexpected or higher. In this case, it would be less related to Dragon Tamer Lulu, and more with our historical messaging about pricing?

I know Hippalus has talked about a lot of these issues, maybe just not this specific one. I don't understand pricing details much myself, but I can see if I can get him to come talk about this one.

Additionally, I know there's some people saying "this isn't worth that price" - I understand that feedback. What I didn't understand was "it's worth it, but I feel ripped off."
I can understand the confusion. It seems to me he is saying that the concept and cute factor won him over, but the quality and work put into the skin did not put it on a tier above other lower priced skins.


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Krimson62

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenamesed View Post
Does anyone here use custom skins? One way to beat buying skins. If you don't care who sees it though other than yourself.
I like to support riot, i like that they make us a great game with cool stuff.

I don't like when they try to raise prices while lowering the bar