Zed is Too Underpowered.

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SynicalDeathblow

Member

11-14-2012

I hate when people bring out the "first day qq" excuse whenever someone tries to post thoughts. MANY people have played him for weeks on PBE and the consensus on there was that he was underpowered. 3 weeks is plenty of time to make an educated decision on your thoughts.


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Highdark

Junior Member

11-14-2012

I have top laned and jungled zed. His jungle is extremely weak. He clears camps just fine but his ganks are lack luster. Top lane his poke is solid until the normal bruiser builds armor/health, and if the bruiser is lee sin,irelia,garen,or rengar their sustain makes his poke negligible. Some suggestions i would make would make his Q deal full damage on double strike(reduced by 20% per unit hit still) instead of the 50% less and energy cost reduced. Make W have a greater range and ability to swap back again. E should slow on both him and his clone instead of just his clone. R should do true damage on the pop or should stun for a second.


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Epictues

Senior Member

11-14-2012

hey how bout waiting till hes been out more than...


ONE DAY BEFORE YOU START COMPLAINING HOW OP OR UP HE IS


gj
ty


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RoastedUlmans

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by asamu View Post
1&2 The Shuriken deals 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 (+1*bonus AD) to the initial target, and 60 / 88 / 116 / 144 / 172(+.8*bonus AD) to every other target. That's actually quite a bit of damage, especially when you consider the 6 sec cd and the shadow. The width is pretty much standard for a skill shot with that long of range; it is the same as Kennen's Q, Elise's E, Mundo's Cleaver, Nid's Spear, etc...
He isn't a bruiser; don't compare him to one.(His damage output is actually quite a bit higher than the standard bruiser with a similar build anyway.)

3. The CD is a bit long at first, but if you use your E frequently and get a bit of CDR, it's not really an issue.

4. Shadow slash deals 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+.8*bonus AD), on a 3 sec cd. That is the same damage as a non-fury bonus Q from Renekton, which has an 8 second cd. Not to mention the damage from a shadow is the same as the damage from you, so if you hit them with your ult and W shadow up, you will deal 540(+2.4*bonus AD). It's definitely not a weak ability.

5. The slow is a bit weak, but if it wasn't only on the shadow, it might be too strong considering the CD and damage of the ability.

6. First off, the ult lasts 4 seconds. Second, it spawns a shadow, meaning your E and Q will deal more damage, so when it is on the target, if you use it properly, you can deal a significant amount of damage. The problem I have been having with this ability is killing people before it detonates, meaning I just get that clone.

7. You don't need to build full glass cannon. He deals a significant amount of damage with just a Brutalizer and Mallet in comparison to most champions.



He is not at all like Talon... He functions very differently, with longer ranged, if less reliable, poke, an additional gap closer, and better scaling into the late game. The downside to him in comparison to talon is that his early game is much weaker; that being said, he has an escape where talon doesn't. His late game is way better: he has roughly equal (possibly slightly higher, especially with the ult) burst, more survivability, more mobility, and more sustained damage.


Not to say that he is OP or anything, just that he is not nearly as UP as you are making him out to be.
His poke is easily avoidable, that's that. I have already said that his poke does nice damage I think a page back so why don't you read instead of just QQing over my first post.

I never directly called him a bruiser.

The CD of his Shadow IS an issue, since it's his damage.

The CD of Shadow Slash doesn't even matter since he's so slow, oh and the CD of Living Shadow is so long you can't catch up to the opponent anyways.

The slow is weak and that's that.

As said above, even with the Ult shadow and the W, you're still doing half and then a quarter damage with the shurikens IF THEY ALL HIT. The return damage is still bad.

But you are right, he is not at all like Talon.


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Darkmoone1

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SynicalDeathblow View Post
I hate when people bring out the "first day qq" excuse whenever someone tries to post thoughts. MANY people have played him for weeks on PBE and the consensus on there was that he was underpowered. 3 weeks is plenty of time to make an educated decision on your thoughts.
And in those 3 weeks he was changed was he not?


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Ow My Feels

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by asamu View Post
1&2 The Shuriken deals 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 (+1*bonus AD) to the initial target, and 60 / 88 / 116 / 144 / 172(+.8*bonus AD) to every other target. That's actually quite a bit of damage, especially when you consider the 6 sec cd and the shadow. The width is pretty much standard for a skill shot with that long of range; it is the same as Kennen's Q, Elise's E, Mundo's Cleaver, Nid's Spear, etc...
He isn't a bruiser; don't compare him to one.(His damage output is actually quite a bit higher than the standard bruiser with a similar build anyway.)
Yea it's is the same size, I think the problem is the speed it is going. It's like half the speed of Kennen and Mundo Q.


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xenrail

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highdark View Post
I have top laned and jungled zed. His jungle is extremely weak. He clears camps just fine but his ganks are lack luster. Top lane his poke is solid until the normal bruiser builds armor/health, and if the bruiser is lee sin,irelia,garen,or rengar their sustain makes his poke negligible. Some suggestions i would make would make his Q deal full damage on double strike(reduced by 20% per unit hit still) instead of the 50% less and energy cost reduced. Make W have a greater range and ability to swap back again. E should slow on both him and his clone instead of just his clone. R should do true damage on the pop or should stun for a second.
I played him purely jungle. His ganks aren't bad compared to some champions, but he does need work. I agree with the changes you've listed especially a .5 or 1.0 second stun on his ult and i'd like to add some. Change the range of his ult to at least akali's R range. Forcing himself to W->W just to get in range to ult is a waste of how unique and important that ability is to burst with everything not to mention he has no escape after initiating (barring W). I'd also like to see his base movespeed buffed to normal melee standards such as 325. Adding some minor instant damage to his ult would also be nice considering the fact that zed is easily kited after ulting and not landing any "combos" or damage will satisfy the full usage of his ult. Q as you've listed i'd like to see the width increased or two shurikens fired instead of just one. It looks bland as a skill and so plain for an assassin. A minor slow to his non-shadowed e would also be useful seeing as if you miss w->w just to get in range and a gank is completely botched as well as chasing a carry in a teamfight. Also please fix his W for transversing terrain. It seems completely bugged when i use it in conjunction with my ult (he shadows in front of himself instead of the full range).

EDIT: I'd like to mention that his tooltip says 6% for his auto attack passive instead of the 8% that is mentioned in release notes. I'm not sure if this is a tooltip bug or if it's actually not the 8%.


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SinRG

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Man there must be some serious butthurt trolls in this thread. Every single post I've seen where the person has said 'maybe if you learnt how to play him better you'd do better' have all been downvoted by -1. Where the posts patting the OP on the back saying 'yes he's broken, buff him, **** champion' has been upvoted to the ****.

Just because you can't play a champion does not make him underpowered. Zed isn't about burst damage. Yes, he can burst, but his bread and butter is mobility and deception. Oh no, I can't button mash all my abilities and kill someone. CHAMPION IS BROKEN. Clue up...

*INC downvotes. Don't give a ****.


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Fknlyu

Junior Member

11-15-2012

I don't think he's necessarily under-powered. However, I do not think he fits within the current meta. He has a great early game combo/poke, and through this I would say he could potentially generate enough momentum/snowballing potential to get by later on. Conversely, he seems far too unforgiving as a champion. For instance, if he leads off with a mediocre/semi-decent start, he lacks the mid-game/late-game team presence.

He doesn't fall under the 'assassin' category as his damage relies significantly on his CD heavy 'W', causing his bursts to lack consistency (unlike champions such as Akali and Katarina who have extreme snowball and clean-up potential) and he clearly does not fall under the list of 'bruisers' either because he lacks the resistance. His current win rate is around 39-40% (we barely see him in any ranked matches), and at this rate, I would say Zed should be heading towards some kind of buff. I don't know rofl, this is just my opinion. But in competitive play, he hasn't really secured himself a decent position in the meta as there are much more formidable and useful champions out there.

Also, to the obnoxious posts out there claiming the opposite, please... Let's face it, LoL's community is infested with a level of stupidity beyond words. Do you really think they're here to actually make constructive inputs for the sake of providing helpful feedback, or do you think they were just here to brag and talk sh*t as a lousy attempt to inflate their egos? The answer is pretty obvious lol.


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Deathlless

Junior Member

11-15-2012

When i first bought kha'zix, I was immediately faced with the frustrating learning curve that came with him. However, I eventually toughed it out and now am very comfortable with his play style.

Zed, on the other hand, was the exact opposite. As I played him more and more, I started to become frustrated with the amount of effort placed into killing one champion. His Q is more along the lines of xerath where his damage capability falls off late game unless one is stacking pure attack damage. I find his W cooldown a little on the long side, but not terribly long, and the cd reduction from his e at a reasonable level. However, trying to capitalize on damage from the shadow is not only difficult (which is FINE, its a mechanic im still perfecting) but I often find myself wondering why the person I just so 'bursted' is still at around 80%-90% health and I'm stuck with little to no energy for a follow up attack.

Another thing i dont understand is how a champion that carries about 300-400 ad is being dominated by champions that have half that amount. At times his ult can be devastating, but there's a HUGE dependency to deal damage. This leaves you with 2 options, go in and take damage to reciprocate damage (of which zed doesn't have the defense early or mid game to survive long enough to deal optimal damage), or to attempt sub par damage with chasing or harassing techniques.

In jungle, he clears camps extremely quickly (forcing me sometimes to wait for smite or abilities), but the lack of a heal outside of lifesteal makes him less viable, even though he can level faster than mid lane. His ganking ability is limited to the cc he can land which comes down to the players ability to position the shadow or bring something like exhaust to the fight.

Overall I find Zed a captivating and challenging champion to master. Capable of completely bursting down the squishier champions but lacking the damage to take down the hardier champions and high sustain champions. I feel that if they dont buff his damage, at least give him a fighting chance by giving him some defense.

Playing against Zed seems to consistently fall off late game, especially against the tankier champs. I remember playing rengar with just flat armor and MR runes, and being completely comfortable with the damage that I could take from him. He DOES do damage, just not enough for me to turn around and run

And for the people who think that I just suck I've been 24-3 with zed, and I STILL think hes underpowered. Just becuase you had a good game with him doesnt mean he's not lacking.