Zed is Too Underpowered.

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RoastedUlmans

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by intro94 View Post
so lets all ignore the poster who is performing quite well with him(he really got 32 kills vs people in 30 minutes).

Lets find excuses, lets say he fought sucky people, even tho matchmaking more or less tries to even the levels of players.

Lets find excuses for his 17-1 game too, always, sucky oponents, no way Zed can do well, no no. Lets FACE reality, the player who fails with Zed is sucking.

Hes not even that complicated. Is just that unskilled players rather blame the tool rather than their inmensely bad skills, If they cant do well, its the champion.

The OP had(we can check) horrible scores with Zed. Hes doing poorly. The player is bad, not zed. At least not trained or the champion is not matching his skill cap.

If average joe is winning consistently and gets 32 kills in the first day, and many kills every SINGLE game(in this case the guy who posted here). Imagine what can a high elo or tournament player will do.

By pure numbers the damage of zed if waay ahead of talon , if done right and has tons more of mobility at the expense of silence.

Im sorry but these whiny threads are easily debunked when you so players perfoming so well so commonly. I heard the same threads about Syndra yet i win my lane almot all the popular AP carries myself and win my games. Same story.
Well you guys are obviously friends lmao.

Anyways I noticed someone say how slow he is, and that does kill him. Even with tier 2 boots his movement speed is under 400.

After playing more I admit his poke is pretty good, but I wouldn't say amazing unless you can land the shadow combo once every 17-22 seconds,

His E is still almost useless tho.

Back to the drawing board.


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Princess Nagi

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I think zed is, okay, but except for that one second of untargetable he gets on his ult he seems to have no way to really survive in the midst of a teamfight like other assassins. His escape has a much lower range then ka'zix's and he doesn't get stealth like Akali or Talon to work as an aggro drop. Unlike fizz he can't troll poll out either. Just disappear for half a second with his ulti. I feel like this forces him to build more like a bruiser then an assasin and really takes away from his role.


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RoastedUlmans

Junior Member

11-14-2012

^ The fact that he needs to be built Glass Cannon for full damage output just does not make him relevant in team fights


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Daanzka

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Zed has a pretty fun playstyle, but I think he is definitely weak overall. I have had games with Zed where I have done really well, but I think that has a lot to do with lack of skill on enemy team and unfamiliarity with Zed.

He needs a little tweaking, some possible changes would be to up his damage a little bit, maybe by lowering the cooldown on his ultimate, which is the only time he can do damage. The design around his shadow is strange as well, because if you want to use it to poke and gain the energy regeneration, you lose your escape completely for 22 seconds. I think it would make more sense to perhaps have his shadow only trigger a 5-10 second cooldown if you don't swap places with it, and a longer cooldown if you do swap places. This would allow you to use it for damage and poke and not be left without an escape for 20+ seconds, while at the same time not allow you a blink spell on too short of a cd. Or just flat out make him a little bit tankier as a trade off for the not so potent damage.

That being said I think he could use a few tweaks to make him a little stronger, but the overall playstyle is pretty fun.


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tenebrous

Member

11-14-2012

I found zed was fun and fairly good. His largest problem is that he is an AD caster like talon, and AD casters do not fit in the current meta and he does not have he best items, as lifesteal and crits are wasted on him, only AD CDR and armor pen are useful. I think we need to see the season three item changes before we write him off.


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Dead78pool

Junior Member

11-14-2012

Zed is underpowered, you forgot to say, that he has no real energy return, and also his aiming his Q from his shadow is stupidly hard and the only way to lower his living shadow CD has a 50 energy cost at lvl 5, the amount of effort he puts into attacks is way to high for the amount of damage he puts out.


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asamu

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoastedUlmans View Post
So, after playing a few games I have a lot of comments. For your information these games were played only as a top lane bruiser.

1) The width of his Shuriken is way too small. It is so hard to harass in lane with how little width the shot has.

2) The damage output of his Shuriken is embarrassingly low. Even when building "Glass Cannon," his damage output does not compare to most bruisers.

3) The cooldown on his Living Shadow is way too long, since his only good source of damage is abusing it with Shuriken and Shadow Slash. So essentially you get to burst (with terrible damage) once every 22 seconds.

4) The damage output of Shadow Slash is also absolutely terrible. Although the low cooldown is nice, I just cannot get the damage out on enemy champs that I would like to have.

5) The fact that only his shadow's Shadow Slash slows the enemy champ kills me, since his shadow's cooldown is outrageous.

6) Death Mark's 3 second mark does very little return damage at low levels, especially since his regular damage output is awful.

7) The fact that in order to do decent damage you have to build "Glass Cannon" makes him extremely squishy in team fights and laning especially.

Pretty much what I've seen is that he is extremely squishy and his little damage output does not make up for it.
1&2 The Shuriken deals 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 (+1*bonus AD) to the initial target, and 60 / 88 / 116 / 144 / 172(+.8*bonus AD) to every other target. That's actually quite a bit of damage, especially when you consider the 6 sec cd and the shadow. The width is pretty much standard for a skill shot with that long of range; it is the same as Kennen's Q, Elise's E, Mundo's Cleaver, Nid's Spear, etc...
He isn't a bruiser; don't compare him to one.(His damage output is actually quite a bit higher than the standard bruiser with a similar build anyway.)

3. The CD is a bit long at first, but if you use your E frequently and get a bit of CDR, it's not really an issue.

4. Shadow slash deals 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+.8*bonus AD), on a 3 sec cd. That is the same damage as a non-fury bonus Q from Renekton, which has an 8 second cd. Not to mention the damage from a shadow is the same as the damage from you, so if you hit them with your ult and W shadow up, you will deal 540(+2.4*bonus AD). It's definitely not a weak ability.

5. The slow is a bit weak, but if it wasn't only on the shadow, it might be too strong considering the CD and damage of the ability.

6. First off, the ult lasts 4 seconds. Second, it spawns a shadow, meaning your E and Q will deal more damage, so when it is on the target, if you use it properly, you can deal a significant amount of damage. The problem I have been having with this ability is killing people before it detonates, meaning I just get that clone.

7. You don't need to build full glass cannon. He deals a significant amount of damage with just a Brutalizer and Mallet in comparison to most champions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0MN1 View Post
I agree. He's a rehash of Talon but doesn't have any burst damage.

An assassin who can't burst down a carry is just dead weight on a team.
He is not at all like Talon... He functions very differently, with longer ranged, if less reliable, poke, an additional gap closer, and better scaling into the late game. The downside to him in comparison to talon is that his early game is much weaker; that being said, he has an escape where talon doesn't. His late game is way better: he has roughly equal (possibly slightly higher, especially with the ult) burst, more survivability, more mobility, and more sustained damage.


Not to say that he is OP or anything, just that he is not nearly as UP as you are making him out to be.


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Zulgaines

Member

11-14-2012

If they reduced his R CD down to 70 seconds and his W CD to 15 he'd be golden.


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fibblins

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by asamu View Post
4. Shadow slash deals 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+.8*bonus AD), on a 3 sec cd. That is the same damage as a non-fury bonus Q from Renekton, which has an 8 second cd. Not to mention the damage from a shadow is the same as the damage from you, so if you hit them with your ult and W shadow up, you will deal 540(+2.4*bonus AD). It's definitely not a weak ability.
Sorry, but this is completely wrong. Overlapping shadow slash hits deal no additional damage. If you hit them with E with your ult and W clone up, you will still deal only 200+(0.8*Bonus AD).

Zed's shurikens deal reduced damage for simultaneous hits. The second one will only do 50% damage, and if you happen to land 3 shurikens with your ult, the third only deals 25% damage.


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Vzn Runner

Junior Member

11-14-2012

They need to make it so the shadow clone actually hits for 100% more damage for a total of 200%. All that work to set up a clone and aim shurikens or his E for NO additional damage? Only a horrible energy return that doesn't even matter in a fight because the CD are too long. Waste of a passive there, even if he didn't return the energy and waited, his CDs would have forced him to wait that long anyways.