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Item Preview – It’s Tuesday

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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
NicknameMy:
Will Tiamat get special particles for the proc and the active?

I hope so! I really want a new particle effect. The old one is boring and looks out of place.

Quote:
Felaedor:
Fiora's ult is .25 seconds between attacks. Well outside the timer. It's only instantaneous AoEs that will be affected, i.e. Shyvana and Twitch targets that are standing on top of eachother. At point blank and max range, you could still get multiple hits from Twitch ult bolts.

Twitch is ranged, so a Tiamat will not proc for him.


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Felaedor

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
IonDragonX:
Twitch is ranged, so a Tiamat will not proc for him.

Derp.

You right.


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IS1d0cb1517abd96

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
tempnameA461:
Not to seem mean, just trying to clarify:
> Surge is being removed because people are bad.
> Tiamat is being changed because people are bad.
> Promote is being added to an item that will disable customization, and probably have a useless stat such as +mana, making it hard to buy on manaless Champions.

Is this correct?


No.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Samflash3:
Hey Xypheropus i dont know if you saw my thread about Tiamat a while ago but anyway this is actually a great solution. Does it mean i can play AD diana? Yeah i know it sounds weird but i wanted to try it because of her skillset. Plus Double crescent splash.

Ooo! That would be fun! The new Manamune plus the RH..... Its possible this could be a thing. The RH/Tiamat would not deal as much burst as her passive, but it would add another active after her R and cleave on every hit.... I must ponder this.


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tempnameA461

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Umika:
No.

Quote:
Roku:
Surge is being removed because it isn’t always clear when to use it or which champions benefit from it. In the end, Surge is a competing spell in a niche we’d like Ignite to fill.


Tiamat had essentially the same comment on it.
People just couldn't figure out how to use them.

So...care to elaborate?


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Felaedor

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Umika:
That is not true. I was buying Spark exactly because it was giving health (and had nice effects too)

I see people have big misconception. Health is better if you have resistances. I mean. If you have just health, you can survive and tank some, but you will be killed fast. If you have just resistances you can survive heavy burst, but you fail to sustain damage. In order to really tank, tanks need to make both. Actually, in my opinion, reaching about 200 both, armor and magic resistance is maximum of actually useful resistances. Because if you focus and keep on making only resistances, enemy players will just make LW/VS and burst you because you have as much health as rest of your team.

Try to tank only with resistances and without making any health items. Soon enough you won't be able to tank at all.

Also, resistances have big weakness. Penetration. Magic and armor easily lower that effective health of armor/magic resistance, when health doesn't have that problem. Health is only lowered by damage, nothing else. So armor and magic resistance is helping in making health works better, but armor and magic resistance is weak without health to support them.

I'd kinda compare it to shield vs heal. While shield (resistances) give you temporary toughness, heal (health) give you constant toughness by restoring your health.


Ironically, you've got it completely backwards.

RESISTS are better against consistent damage, as they positively scale the EHP provided by Lifesteal, Spellvamp, LoH, Regen, Heals, and Shields.

Until the enemy also has significant %Penetration, they also tend to be better total EHP against burst as well for the cost. Enemies with sizable amounts of Flat Penetration/Reduction actually make purchasing Flat Resists MORE cost effective.

The ONLY situation where MaxHP has a mechanical advantage over resists is true damage. That's it, and it's because resists mean nothing to true damage.

You're right, eventually you get to a point in purchased Resists where MaxHP passes them in cost effectiveness because they do scale with eachother, but it's still playing catchup until then, and it's tough to make it to that point if the enemy doesn't have LW/VS. That's just how the math works.


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Convict24601

Recruiter

11-14-2012

no tiamat stacking sounds like no more tiamat fun time with bots...but I guess thats a worthwhile trade for a usable items in pvp


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Gewcebawcks

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Zed and Tiamat, please elaborate:

1. If I have Tiamat, and I use the active, would the active effect come from just the "real" Zed, or both him and his shadow?

2. Zed is Melee AD, but his Q is ranged. Will Tiamat proc off the Q? If so, will it apply to the shadow as well?

3. Do abilities like Zed's ult, or Kat's shunpo cause the Tiamat to proc?

4. For many players, newer ones specifically, it can be very hard to figure out what procs on what, and what's an on hit effect, etc. Have you guys thought about Adaptive Tooltips, or Adaptive Skill Buttons?
Adaptive Tooltips: If I buy a Tiamat, and I highlight over my champions abilities, a note at the bottom of the ability appears, stating "This ability will activate Tiamat's Unique Passive, Cleave."
Adaptive Skill Buttons: If I buy a Tiamat, it will have an active ability border in my items, showing me I can use it. Why not adjust the color of these types of items. Example: Tiamat's active ability border could be orange (all things considered). If I buy the Tiamat, all my skills that Proc Tiamat's abilities would have a Orange boarder, or maybe an orange ribbon (like honor ribbons) so abilities that might proc multiple on hit effects could have multiple ribbons.

5. In terms of other items, what sort of combos work well with the new Tiamat? For example, I'm sure Tiamat and Bloodthirster work well together with the additional AD bonus, but maybe we aren't thinking of other interactions as of yet (like the formally awesome Sheen+Tiamat).

As always, thanks for taking some time out of your busy day, and your free time, to talk to the community!


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Draginath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

No more tiamat twitch for me? Gonna miss melting teams that thinks it's cool to turret dive.

Not to mention how much it helped me farm or the sustain so I could roam more.


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Kaelii

Junior Member

11-14-2012

This is really more of an inquiry into one of the most extreme niche cases.

Mordekaizer's ultimate, children of the grave produces a ghost which retains passives of the champion it kills including those from madred's bloodrazor or like volibear's passive. This suggests to me that a ghost version of a champion should be able to trigger the cleave passive effect from tiamat, which would deal damage based upon the total attack damage of the ghost, although the ghost's regular auto attacks will only deal magic damage.

I consider this mostly because the ghost appears to be tracked almost as its own champion, and for example can be cloned by yorick's omen of death ability (although it cannot extend the lifetime of the ghost).

But this brings me to my extreme niche case.
On the enemy team we have a Gangplank who has built Ravenous Hydra.
On the allied team, we have Mordekaizer and Yorick Mori.
Supposing Mordekaizer gets a ghost of the enemy gangplank and Yorick clones that ghost, I'm curious to know how A: gangplank's passive will apply from both ghost and clone auto attacking a target, B: how Ravenous Hydra's internal limiter will view the ghost and clone auto attacking different targets, and C: how Ravenous Hydra's AoE damage will interact with Omen of Death's reduced damage.

I should stop obsessing over this silly extreme case morde+yorick cloning shenanigans.
I don't know nearly enough about how they work in game to really try to reason this stuff out.