Blackfire Broken

First Riot Post
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ricedream5

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Ok. BFT is kinda OP. My koggy R now pokes for 500+ damage instead of 400.... More importantly, it builds out of two very good items, and you can actually stack Guise with it...

On an unrelated note, Wooglets is also very very good.

Despite these items being maybe broken OP, I'm actually glad we're seeing far more AP play (minus kassadin and teemo, delete those) than the constant spam of Jax Jayce etc.

Also Heimer (and probably Zyra) seems hella annoying with this update.


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Phourc

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnBuwberry View Post
I think people need to rethink their math just a little bit. I'ts not the normal mages that are causing the problem. It's the mages with DoT's(Swain, Brand, Teemo, Singed, etc.) that are causing the problem. The DoT resets the 3 second duration for every tick effectively reseting BFT to 3 secs until the last tick. I single Teemo shroom does Shroom dmg + 10% of you max hp over the duration( not 5%.) In swains case since he has a 4 second dot in e can burn you for nearly 12% of your max hp with 1 spell + the spell itself.
Yay someone said what I was thinking, this item is neat but currently makes it so that the strongest attribute a mage can bring to a team is having a DoT effect to abuse BFT's passive. That's... pretty terrible, really.

I'd be pretty interested in seeing an AP ratio put onto the passive, I definitely think as it stands it just 'bruisers up' the existing caster lineup.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
So, bruisers should be tankier, faster, and do more damage than casters? Why have casters? Don't tell me burst, bruisers have fantastic burst against squishies.

If it wasn't for the necessity of having multiple damage sources, I don't think anyone would ever actually use casters in Dominion. AoE is glorious until you realize it's balanced around SR farm and blue buff/elixir making up holes in CDR itemization. CC? There is enough CC between supports/tanks/bruisers.
Melee champions, and bruisers, spending the same amount of gold should be tankier.
melee champions, spending the same amount of gold, should do more base damage than ranged champions, when both are in melee.
Considering bruisers are predominantly melee, and AP carries are predominantly ranged, then yes, I expect bruisers to deal more base damages and be tankier.

AP carries, and AD carries, scale better with flat AD/AP than bruisers, who scale better with levels.
Melee champions ARE given extra power for their hardship in life, of getting to and staying on an opponent.
AP champions are designed around burst cycles - they provide a massive burst, and then do less till the cooldowns come back up.

Sure bruisers have a nice burst, but it's almost always single target burst, they usually have less CC, and the burst is smaller as the game goes on - the AP carry burst scales with AP, the bruiser's burst usually scales much less on ratios - and bruisers also tend to spend more gold on defensive items. This is exactly why bruisers go for triforce - the non-scalability of their damage.

It's erroneous to treat the AoE nature of AP burst champions to be irrelevant on Dominion. It's not as efficient as it is on SR - true. But it's still very potent. If it's so irrelevant, imagine stopping caps with a Brand or Amumu ults, or catching 2-3 people in the jungle with such an ult.

AP carries still retain their burst, their AoE, their scalability, and now they also get consistent damage - even if it's not exactly scaling right now (BFT is like a triforce in this sense, but it does scale through the game on enemy HP).

Squishy ranged champions shouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with bruisers who get the jump on them into melee. If they can consistently do so, but also still retain their previous strengths (as in, it doesn't require them to itemize so heavily for defense that they are also effectively bruisers), then something's wrong.

I still want to see how things go with the sweeper. Melee champs are already kiteable by CC, thus they have gap closers and more MS. Will they have more MS now, effectively? Not calling it one way or the other, but it should be closely observed.


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TechPrince

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Why is this item enabled on dom in the first place?


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Because AP mages need help on TT/Dominion.

A bit of a tangent, but I'm bemused at the "3k hp is full out tank" comments. I play mostly bruisers. I once calculated it, at ~20 minutes, my Jax build has almost exactly 3k HP.
Triforce, p. blade (I like to keep it quite late), hp/level runes which I run on bruisers with free resistances (and E also gives you +33% effective hp vs AoE damage), and 21 points in defense.


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Instead of 1 charge per second? Why don't it fully charge (25) every 25 second?

So if they used it up before, they have to wait until the next 25th second to get new set of charge


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Instead of 1 charge per second? Why don't it fully charge (25) every 25 second?

So if they used it up before, they have to wait until the next 25th second to get new set of charge
That sounds as fun on Dominion as removing my own molars with a rusty chisel.


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TechPrince

Senior Member

11-14-2012

On dominion? dont think so.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

If everything is balanced bruisers and mages would have a 50/50 chance of killing each other...right ?
so bruiser actually get killed by mages in this theori of ballance above .

so like ...is the item really that op ?

does the item need chance of does it simply need to be excluded from some skills like theemo shrooms ?
Or rather: Is the item wrong or just some champion skills in combination with the item ?
because if thats the case than simply exclude the proc from some skills ...right ?


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
That sounds as fun on Dominion as removing my own molars with a rusty chisel.
To be honest, i think the item should just have CDR removed, then it would be OK...