Kayles "Instant" attack, blessing or a curse?

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Pigrat

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Heres the thing though...

champions like Vayne can basically get 2 600-800 damage bolts in the air by being within range for 1 second.


Those bolts still fly when shes out of range, or if the enemy is out of range.


Granted her Q is really strong on its own, I feel like not having a projectile is holding her back late game.


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Bad Luck Braum

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Where is your frozen mallet?


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Uroboros

Senior Member

11-13-2012

No, she wouldn't. Her instant damage is a strength. It allows her to easily throw in harasses, poke under turrets easily and back off. She's stronger for her instant damage rather than a projectile. Besides, I don't exactly know how you would animate that. It's also easier to see how much damage you're doing a hit.


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Vuther

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigrat View Post
Heres the thing though...

champions like Vayne can basically get 2 600-800 damage bolts in the air by being within range for 1 second.


Those bolts still fly when shes out of range, or if the enemy is out of range.


Granted her Q is really strong on its own, I feel like not having a projectile is holding her back late game.
And farmed/fed Vayne's projectiles were instant instead, she would still be hitting 600-800 per autoattack, only the autoattacks would hit the poor *******s faster.

In the same frame of time with the same attack speed and attack damage, an autoattack with a faster projectile will do as much damage as the slower projectile, aside from how slower projectiles are easier to prevent with defensive measures. Two autoattacks in a second is two autoattacks in a second, no matter how fast they land. If someone flashes away from Kayle to avoid death by a single hit, Kayle would still not be able to kill them with a lower projectile speed unless the enemy mistakes her damage potential due to the slower time it for them to land... which is just their fault.

Projectile speeds affect many things, but suddenly making Kayle's slower wouldn't help her getting killing blows easier.


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Enterti

Senior Member

11-13-2012

They still have to be in range for it to launch. There is no difference really.


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Pigrat

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoeya View Post
No, she wouldn't. Her instant damage is a strength. It allows her to easily throw in harasses, poke under turrets easily and back off. She's stronger for her instant damage rather than a projectile. Besides, I don't exactly know how you would animate that. It's also easier to see how much damage you're doing a hit.

You can do the same thing with "leashed" projectiles. It just takes 1/2 a second for the damage to register, usually meaning the enemy wont react as quickly. Especially late game when those 1 or 2 projectiles are hitting for 500-1000 damage.


And you can animate it the same way you animate anything else.

Fireball comes from sword ---> Goes to player.


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Pigrat

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
And farmed/fed Vayne's projectiles were instant instead, she would still be hitting 600-800 per autoattack, only the autoattacks would hit the poor *******s faster.

In the same frame of time with the same attack speed and attack damage, an autoattack with a faster projectile will do as much damage as the slower projectile, aside from how slower projectiles are easier to prevent with defensive measures. Two autoattacks in a second is two autoattacks in a second, no matter how fast they land. If someone flashes away from Kayle to avoid death by a single hit, Kayle would still not be able to kill them with a lower projectile speed unless the enemy mistakes her damage potential due to the slower time it for them to land... which is just their fault.

Projectile speeds affect many things, but suddenly making Kayle's slower wouldn't help her getting killing blows easier.


I would suggest that projectile speed is better when its MUCH SLOWER for leashed BASIC ATTACKS. (not abilities, with stuns and such)


Imagine a SUPER SUPER slow projectile. You could preload 20 bolts into the air that would chase the enemy anywhere they go, and basically instantly kill them regardless of where they move too. MOre importantly, the enemy wouldnt necessarily react to it, because their health bar isnt moving down.


So basically, slower projectiles provide more burst damage if the enemy can move out of range of your attacks.


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kthnxbai

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Recruiter

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigrat View Post
I would suggest that projectile speed is better when its MUCH SLOWER for leashed abilities.


Imagine a SUPER SUPER slow projectile. You could preload 20 bolts into the air that would chase the enemy anywhere they go, and basically instantly kill them regardless of where they move too. MOre importantly, the enemy wouldnt necessarily react to it, because they're health bar isnt moving down.


So basically, slower projectiles provide more burst damage if the enemy can move out of range of your attacks.
this is wrong. even if they moved super slow, they still travel as the same rate as each other. essentially, when they hit, they will deal damage at the same dps as if the damage was instant, just at a delay.

think about it. let's say you need 20 hits to kill someone. would you rather auto them 20 times and then have them die 10 seconds later or auto them 20 times and have them die at that point?

this is also why DOTs tend to do more damage than instant spells, because the damage that you do is later.

yes this "surprise kill" is good against player that don't know about the mechanic but it's not useful if they're not stupid


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Vuther

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigrat View Post
I would suggest that projectile speed is better when its MUCH SLOWER for leashed abilities.


Imagine a SUPER SUPER slow projectile. You could preload 20 bolts into the air that would chase the enemy anywhere they go, and basically instantly kill them regardless of where they move too.


So basically, slower projectiles provide more burst damage if the enemy can move out of range of your attacks.
Untrue, because you need to maintain the attack range to even pull off those attacks. A fast projectile will do the same thing if given the same parameters, but will land faster.

Unless the slower projectiles are like a gyrojet which gains speed the farther they travel, but I am certain autoattacks do not do this.


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Pigrat

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthnxbai View Post
this is wrong. even if they moved super slow, they still travel as the same rate as each other. essentially, when they hit, they will deal damage at the same dps as if the damage was instant, just at a delay.

think about it. let's say you need 20 hits to kill someone. would you rather auto them 20 times and then have them die 10 seconds later or auto them 20 times and have them die at that point?

The more the player "turns" the closer those projectiles will "bunch" together.


Ever played diablo 2? Slow missiles + Guided arrow.


This is also why two of vaynes bolts can actually hit at almost the exact same time if you blink or dash in the proper direction.