Kills need to stop giving experience and gold

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Rokoma

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
I think that if the respawn timers were fixed like they were supposed to be, then that might go a long way towards even eliminating the small snowballing that occurs now. As it is, there is a definite point at about level 13-14 that there is a big shift in momentum. If one team is up a lot by that point, say 400-150 or thereabouts, then it feels like something happens at that time to really even up the scores. I've been on both sides of this and have been paying a lot of attention to it lately to try and figure out what it is. But i've seen many games recently where one team drops to about 150 or 100 and then gets control of the game and never lets go for more than a minute or two. It doesn't matter how far ahead the other team was. Now, the team that was in the lead can maintain that lead for sure, but it seems like they have to work a lot harder at that point. Any ideas on what might be causing that? maybe its when the revives come up for the second time...
Some of it might come from the winning team becoming cocky. They're so sure they're going to win, they just chase kills instead of protecting points. This is when backdooring is occurring and the losing team catches up. After they lose that huge gain, morale goes to hell and they give up. That's what happens in most of the games I play.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
I think that if the respawn timers were fixed like they were supposed to be, then that might go a long way towards even eliminating the small snowballing that occurs now. As it is, there is a definite point at about level 13-14 that there is a big shift in momentum. If one team is up a lot by that point, say 400-150 or thereabouts, then it feels like something happens at that time to really even up the scores. I've been on both sides of this and have been paying a lot of attention to it lately to try and figure out what it is. But i've seen many games recently where one team drops to about 150 or 100 and then gets control of the game and never lets go for more than a minute or two. It doesn't matter how far ahead the other team was. Now, the team that was in the lead can maintain that lead for sure, but it seems like they have to work a lot harder at that point. Any ideas on what might be causing that? maybe its when the revives come up for the second time...
I've been seeing this a lot too. I think it's a mix of psychology (the winning team getting lax and making errors/getting caught), and obscene respawn timers for the losing team. But I do agree, it seems like there has to be something else, too...

And Rokoma, you need to stop assuming. You don't even know the guy and have never played with him before. He is high elo for a reason.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-13-2012

I've yet to see a convincing argument in this thread as to why kills should provide gold and XP.

I think it's simply a mechanic that we're used to in this genre, and the thought of removing something so familiar is scary.

In reality, I don't feel it serves much purpose. I think the XP and gold for champion kills is a small percentage of what is gained through ambient earnings. Removal of these two rewards would only serve to slightly slow down the game.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
I've yet to see a convincing argument in this thread as to why kills should provide gold and XP.

I think it's simply a mechanic that we're used to in this genre, and the thought of removing something so familiar is scary.

In reality, I don't feel it serves much purpose. I think the XP and gold for champion kills is a small percentage of what is gained through ambient earnings. Removal of these two rewards would only serve to slightly slow down the game.
What is a convincing argument as to why xp and gold should be removed? Kills should be rewarded or else it takes out the incentive to kill your opponent.


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Hamm3rhand

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
Some of it might come from the winning team becoming cocky. They're so sure they're going to win, they just chase kills instead of protecting points. This is when backdooring is occurring and the losing team catches up. After they lose that huge gain, morale goes to hell and they give up. That's what happens in most of the games I play.
i am sure that its isn't the case in 90% the games that im thinking of. I'm high enough elo where people actually try decently and they know not to get overly cocky. And this happens in most of the games that i play that there isn't a large skill disparity from someone duoqueing or something.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
What is a convincing argument as to why xp and gold should be removed? Kills should be rewarded or else it takes out the incentive to kill your opponent.
The reward for killing people is that they're dead and can't stop you from capping a point.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
i am sure that its isn't the case in 90% the games that im thinking of. I'm high enough elo where people actually try decently and they know not to get overly cocky. And this happens in most of the games that i play that there isn't a large skill disparity from someone duoqueing or something.
There's always champion selection. Some champions do better than others with the same item(s). Some have better late game, others have better early game. That's a possibility.


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Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
If kills didn't give xp or gold, what's the point of trying to kill them? There's no incentive to trying to kill the enemy. You would see a sharp rise in people playing harass champions. Capture a point and just harrass. Don't engage in an actual fight, just poking
Killing someone is still better than zoning them. If someone is zoned they can back and heal. That takes 4 seconds. If you kill someone they can't do anything for 13 to 24 seconds seconds (unless they have revive). Also kills reduce nexus health.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
The whole point of certain champions such as pantheon and other early game champs is to be strong and snowball just enough of a lead that they can hold onto it for the rest of the game. If this happened, everyone would hit levels at the same time, and everyone would always have the same gold, and so it would come down to who has the better late game comp, because after a point the early game champs with no way to have gained an advantage will just be destroyed.
Kills still reduce nexus health. If there is an early-late imbalance, kills could reduce the nexus health more.

If there wasn't a spawn timer advantage to the losing team then early-game comps would have an easier time ending the game fast.

Passive gold and xp gain could be reduced to favor early game comps.

I don't think removing kill and gold xp would significantly weaken early game comps, but if it did there are other methods to keep early game comps strong.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

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Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
The reward for killing people is that they're dead and can't stop you from capping a point.
They'll do the same thing if they're at low health. Get them low and they'll run away and go back to base. The only benefit there is you capture a point. That's not as good as bonus gold and a captured point. I think the game is fine as it is. If anything, captures should still give gold, but neutralizing shouldn't.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
They'll do the same thing if they're at low health. Get them low and they'll run away and go back to base. The only benefit there is you capture a point. That's not as good as bonus gold and a captured point. I think the game is fine as it is. If anything, captures should still give gold, but neutralizing shouldn't.
Many champions are still effective at preventing caps at low health. For example: Kog'Maw, Corki, Ezreal, Kha'Zix, Jayce... etc.

Captures should not give gold, because that puts incentive on bad play (losing and re-capturing points for more gold).