Kills need to stop giving experience and gold

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Full Brain

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11-13-2012

There is no such thing as snowballing in Dominion your team is just bad.


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Hamm3rhand

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11-13-2012

I was able to spec some of the tourney games last DD. the gold differences even on teams that were really destroying was never more than 4k, and was usually more like 1.5k, with half or more of that being on the bot laner that was able to bully the other bot into not cs'ing as much. Thats one small item per person, maybe one medium item, or one large item on one person if they are the one that has all the kills.

I think it would be frustrating for teams to not gain anything from the fighting, as well as disrupting comps. The whole point of certain champions such as pantheon and other early game champs is to be strong and snowball just enough of a lead that they can hold onto it for the rest of the game. If this happened, everyone would hit levels at the same time, and everyone would always have the same gold, and so it would come down to who has the better late game comp, because after a point the early game champs with no way to have gained an advantage will just be destroyed.

I personally disagree with the changes.


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Hamm3rhand

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R View Post
But I don't understand bottom lane well so I don't know how minion gold affects it. If minion gold causes snowballing I think it should be removed.
I don't understand, have you never played SR or bot lane? of course minion gold causes snowballing, thats one of the main reasons they are there is to provide extra income. When you kill or zone your opponent so that you can farm but they can't, then you are getting extra income that they aren't. This is a core principle of moba's imo.

So you are basically wanting to remove all gold income except for the passive gold? The only way that would result in a fair fight throughout the game is if all people played the same champion, and so it would come down to skill and build order (and don't get me started on how toxic THAT would be if someone deviated from the "right" build order...as bad as SR). Just imagine...a 10 teemo game. IMAGINE IT AND WEEP!


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

If kills didn't give xp or gold, what's the point of trying to kill them? There's no incentive to trying to kill the enemy. You would see a sharp rise in people playing harass champions. Capture a point and just harrass. Don't engage in an actual fight, just poking.

Personally, I enjoy killing the other people because yes, I do snowball, especially with a full armor Rammus. Ever see a full armor Rammus top? I have. Late game, I could hold top 3v1 with ease. AP up there? Q away and return with a taunt and ultimate. Rammus OP, nerf Rammus.

There are just some champions better at Dominion than others. Personally, I think Karthus is a terrible pick for Dominion. His ult has a long CD, low mobility and his key items are expensive as all hell, whereas you have a character like Katarina or Lux. Low CD ults with AoE and long range respectively. Their items can be expensive, depending on how you build them, but with better ults come better farm. Better farm means more gold, more items, more kills, more gold, so on.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
I don't understand, have you never played SR or bot lane? of course minion gold causes snowballing, thats one of the main reasons they are there is to provide extra income. When you kill or zone your opponent so that you can farm but they can't, then you are getting extra income that they aren't. This is a core principle of moba's imo.

So you are basically wanting to remove all gold income except for the passive gold? The only way that would result in a fair fight throughout the game is if all people played the same champion, and so it would come down to skill and build order (and don't get me started on how toxic THAT would be if someone deviated from the "right" build order...as bad as SR). Just imagine...a 10 teemo game. IMAGINE IT AND WEEP!
AP Teemo shrooms EVERYWHERE. I don't think OP had a single thought writing this post. He more than likely plays a champion that is piss poor at Dominion and angry when the enemy kills him and snowballs.

TL;DR: OP feeds and gets mad.


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Hamm3rhand

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
AP Teemo shrooms EVERYWHERE. I don't think OP had a single thought writing this post. He more than likely plays a champion that is piss poor at Dominion and angry when the enemy kills him and snowballs.

TL;DR: OP feeds and gets mad.
No, RRRR isn't a bad player, i've played with him before. You know what happens when you assume.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Hamm3rhand View Post
No, RRRR isn't a bad player, i've played with him before. You know what happens when you assume.
Played with him in classic or Dominion? Two completely different games.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-13-2012

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Originally Posted by Rokoma View Post
Played with him in classic or Dominion? Two completely different games.
I can also vouch for Ryzol - he's a dang good Dominion player. He held his own well in last week's DD tourney against Point Defense.

It would be neat to see a Riot (nome) response on this, because it's a cool idea. Obviously, it's pretty extreme, but it may spark some conversations that could help with map growth.


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Rokoma

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11-13-2012

If he's a veteran Dominion player, he should know that kills don't mean everything, point defense and team work does. If he's lacking competent players, I can understand his frustration, but taking out xp and gold on kills won't fix anything. Stupid is stupid, you can't fix it. If a person is wiling to learn, they're not stupid, they're just new. Some people just want to get kills, they're not good in Dominion. An unfortunate match isn't grounds for making drastic changes like this.


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Hamm3rhand

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11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
Obviously, it's pretty extreme, but it may spark some conversations that could help with map growth.
I think that if the respawn timers were fixed like they were supposed to be, then that might go a long way towards even eliminating the small snowballing that occurs now. As it is, there is a definite point at about level 13-14 that there is a big shift in momentum. If one team is up a lot by that point, say 400-150 or thereabouts, then it feels like something happens at that time to really even up the scores. I've been on both sides of this and have been paying a lot of attention to it lately to try and figure out what it is. But i've seen many games recently where one team drops to about 150 or 100 and then gets control of the game and never lets go for more than a minute or two. It doesn't matter how far ahead the other team was. Now, the team that was in the lead can maintain that lead for sure, but it seems like they have to work a lot harder at that point. Any ideas on what might be causing that? maybe its when the revives come up for the second time...