FeralPony and Roku Discuss Preseason Changes

First Riot Post
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Shirahago

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by solko View Post
I like most of the changes, alot where needed. Barrier is bad tho, think about the endless op type abuse many chamipions will have, example: Olaf passive, then at10% health he pops barrier, kat using her ult + barrier, how do we kill a jax with barrier, lee sin and lulu or janna on his team?!?!! Thats 3 shields+ Jax's ability to get hp back. This is really just a few examples, Barrier overall might slow down the games by alot. From low elo to pro, barrier is a major concern. If Riot really really wanted to keep it in game then maybe give it a like a 8-10 min cd. This seems high but a shield with 500 hp does too.
You either kite Jax/Lee or you kill Lulu/Janna first. You could do this strategy before (Mundo+Lulu+Soraka(mid)+triple heals) and it didn't fundamentally change much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deventhor View Post
Well, it's official. I hate the new masteries. The funny thing is that I've seen at least 3 other people make the same judgement as I have about vampirism (IT SHOULD NOT BE A TIER 3 SUPPORT).
Also, with Riot trying to nerf sustain a bit, the defense tree is pretty much unusable to me. I used to have 3 pages (9/21/0 [ad], 9/21/0 [ap], and 0/21/9 [mana]) set up depending on my tanky needs.. now you pretty much have to go PURE defensive in order to be effective as a tank. Lame, Riot. Lame.
While I agree about the vampirism part, there is nothing wrong with tanks putting most points into defense. If you want to play as a tank, you can go full defense and be completely fine. If you prefer to offer more dmg or whatever, it's completely normal that you have to sacrifice something else for it.


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Bilbo Teabaggin

Junior Member

12-05-2012

You guys have made all of these "sweeping changes" to the game, yet you still leave flash virtually untouched. I do not see myself picking something in place of flash on ANY champion that I play. It is just broken, everbody uses and abuses it. I suggest complete removal or at least making it to where you cannot flash through objects to properly balance this summoner spell. Really disappointed about flash, looking forward to all the other changes though.


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Akages

Junior Member

12-05-2012

Still hate the fact that the mastery that allowed for extra mana or more importantly for my characters like shen or zed, the extra 10 energy


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-06-2012

Having looked at the new tree, I've got some questions. First, what is up with Biscuiteer? How does that work? And does Explorer really only work once in the entire game? Also, why the scout nerf? I mean I'm sure it will see tactical use in higher level games, but it just seems like it's too much of a niche use to put into the masteries; better I think to just nerf the old range, or swap it out for a duration increase. I thought supports were supposed to get buffs this time around; this doesn't seem like it really does anything.

Also, I thought you guys made a big point about trying to prune out 'wasted' masteries, and yet any champion who has little use for both AS and CDR now has to "waste" at least one point in one or the other of them.

Regarding the small bonuses in light of the way resistances & penetration have been developed, are they added/calculated before or after others? That is, does the reduction of AA damage by 3 get factored in before or after the 10% reduced damage from critical damage, and do these get considered before or after armor & other resistances? That is, is it hypothetically possible to take effectively 0 damage from auto attacks if you're a properly itemized & spec'd Alistar mid ult?

Overall I do like the changes and there are definitely a lot of interesting choices now. Thanks for all the work you guys put into this, and thanks in advance for any answers.


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Black and Yellow

Member

12-07-2012

Why there is still 3 branch? Just make 1 and mix them all with hte same pts system (4 pts for going to the "best lil op masteries"

We need a single point mastery inside the defence mastery branch (to the first line). I personally always use 3/3 in perseverance and for my summoner spells i prefer the one inside the offensive branch so if i want to go further inside the defense like maybe the ad/ap def i cant. I have to spent a point inside the -1 dmg from minion and i dont like that.

Another thing, there is no thread for the new UI so I'll give my opinions here:

- Before that new UI, my text size was maxed already and that was barely perfect. Now i have a lot of difficulty to read it. I would 3x the text size...

- The look of the UI sux. There is no textures its looking like a old video game. Especially the pop up windows when our team want to surrender. It's looking like an atari ou NES game seriously the look is so ugly and 1d-2d... nothing is 3d a minimum, no texture to create some kind of relief

-The item shop is mmhhhh better and worst. Better because we now can easily see how much an item cost and because we can make filters to find exactly what we need for a new build but it's using 100% of my processor every time I open the shop and it take me more time to find what I want (and no, Is it not a matter of habit). The recommended items should be in midle of the window (it would save a couple of 0.5 sec). Some time when I dbl clic to buy an item its not working because we need to clic right in the midle of the icon, and finally, the shop isn't basic enough, it's too much complex for nothing because when you found your build, you dont need all the stuff we have inside... More stuff to look at = less reaction time. We are not suppose to stay more than 2 sec inside the shop after spawning...

3 more things with the shop:
1. we need more filters like "Gold items" and I forgot what, but i know we need at least 1 or 2 more filters
2. that would be nice to have an invisible timer inside the shop I mean if we would be unable to do 4 clic by error and buy 2x the same item. It make us raging so much lol
3. I was using the program LoLRecommendedItems to modify my recommended items (i dont know if they updated it). It would be nice to have that implemented into the game, and better, if we could do everything with the ui like in world of warcraft, i mean be able to resize the window and move what we want where we want............ (the entire ui, not only inside the shop).


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrock le Qc View Post
Why there is still 3 branch? Just make 1 and mix them all with hte same pts system (4 pts for going to the "best lil op masteries"
The reason there's 3 branches is so that someone like Kat or Garen (or a burst-mage) doesn't scale up the offensive tree, stopping over along the utility tree to get a full 10% CDR from masteries (plus 10% from blue pot) and literally spamming their fully powered abilities. The whole idea is that the further into a tree you go, the more rewards you get (on an exponential scale) so that it's usually better to spec deeper than to branch out too much. Combining all the trees would do some really scary things, like let Darius skip AS for health, then pick up damage & arpen, go back for ar & mr, hop over again for more damage, and double up on the % bonus damage and the % damage resistance - unkillable deathmachine anyone?

In fact the trees, as currently structured, would encourage people to go 21 deep, and then fill all the high tier options with their remaining 9. Your AD carries would build pure damage and get Pickpocket (and the bonus gold) without any real sacrifice. You might counter this in one of two ways: 1) reduce everyone's MP to 21, so they can't just take the 3 top masteries after slogging through any old combination (conveniently cherry-picked to min-max every aspect). Or 2) increase the cost to advance each level. The first option I think is undesireable as a whole, but niether of these suggestions would solve the problem.

Either way, the root problem would be the ability to "sacrifice" 3 flat damage for a ton of bonus gold. The problem is not that you're not going through lower masteries to get higher ones, it's that certain combinations of masteries could lead to unintended and "stupidly strong" advantages. In fact, these combinations would then become required, reducing variation, diversity, strategy, creativity, and thought generally. Yes it sucks that we can't all be Simon the Killer Ewok (a cute little thing with tons of health, regen, resistance, and insane damage, and no weaknesses), but that's the way this goes.


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Black and Yellow

Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Combining all the trees would do some really scary things, like let Darius skip AS for health, then pick up damage & arpen, go back for ar & mr, hop over again for more damage, and double up on the % bonus damage and the % damage resistance - unkillable deathmachine anyone?
Darius is a op champ lol it's not a good example you are using... Riot have to nerf that champ masteries or not and don't forget that everybody would be able to make the build they want so everybody can be "op" depending on their play style...


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Beaumains

Senior Member

12-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrock le Qc View Post
Darius is a op champ lol it's not a good example you are using... Riot have to nerf that champ masteries or not and don't forget that everybody would be able to make the build they want so everybody can be "op" depending on their play style...
Don't fall for that; Darius has many, many weaknesses; I happen to play a lot of them (Karth, Ryze, Vlad, Veig, Brand, Fidd, Malz, Annie, Ali, Galio, Nunu, Raka, Sona, Ramm, Mumu, Garen, Hec, Nas, Jax, Ash, Twitch, Kog, Trist, Ez, WW, the list goes on tho). Still, the problem with combining the trees is that there would be no "depending on their play style" because the bottom 3 masteries would be required across the board (for example). That is, we'd see even more cookie-cutter builds than before, which is something Riot is specifically trying to avoid.

EDIT: To put it another way, if the trees are combined, everyone will take the same masteries (or fall), and then what's the point of having masteries? The way they are now, you go for bonus damage, bonus beef, or bonus speed, along with other things, a) depending on your preferences & playstyle, and b) considering the strengths & weaknesses of your champion (either min-maxing or shoring up). You basically gambit on whether you think the bonus offense will help you dish out more damage faster than others can take/avoid it, or whether you can tank enough damage with bonus defense to do your thing, or whether the bonus utility will help you get to the top via other methods. That's why the masteries exist.


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Black and Yellow

Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
EDIT: To put it another way, if the trees are combined, everyone will take the same masteries (or fall), and then what's the point of having masteries?
Well, 3x the number of masteries we can pick ? repeat some 2 or 3 time (like 2 or 3 2% run speed). That way it would be different for everybody for real. a adc would still prefer picking some dmg to be able to last hit, the top some defense to resist more the enemy top and so on but that would give liberty to people. For an example, I would pick all run speed possible with sona and use 0 defense masteries and maybe 0 def runes and using my ap runes intead for roaming with my heal...


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spartango1

Junior Member

01-08-2013

Could you make an increase in the amount of mastery pages? I'm really needing the extra space. Anyone agree?