The point of draft picks

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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mageinta Warrior View Post
They mean a lot more than you think they do. If you counterpick mid, you're set to dominate the lane. That means your midgame presence is more powerful than theirs. Same deal with top lane, and if mid/top and dominating, that leaves your jungler to pressure bottom and help it snowball too.
You're set to dominate the lane. Sure. IF you know how to play the counter pick champion at least as well as the person who is playing the champion you are countering knows how to play that champion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSnafu View Post
top is near the bottom because like is said above if you see someone picks jax you can then counter him with malph making them either have to be really good at jax and u bad at malph if thats not the case u win the lane, whereas with support counters affect them very little compared to the rest, also every champ has a counter so if you are near last theres a very good chance you already know who there top is going to be and can then counter it
So, you'd have me believe that if I'm playing top lane for my team, and the enemy team picks a top lane Jax, my team is better of having me play Malphite (who I've played like twice) then say a Riven or Volibear, both of which I've played as tons of times and I'm very familiar with.

Because this HAS to be the point you're making, otherwise, my point "counter picks don't mean as much as you think they mean" is still valid. If I'm better off playing a Riven that I'm familiar with than a Malphite that I'm unfamiliar with against Jax, despite Malphite being a counter, then the same would be true to my opponent. If I first pick Jax, they're better off picking a champion that they're good with instead of a champion that's specifically a Jax counter.

Now granted, maybe Malphite is their main, and if so, I would've been better off picking someone other than Jax. Because if we're both playing our mains, and we're both roughly equal in skill, and your main is a counter to my main, you'll probably win lane.

But the fact of the matter is, most players aren't good enough with a wide enough range of champions to exploit all of these counters. Heck, if Malphite is such a good counter to Jax, why don't we see Malphite in the tournaments nearly as often as we see Jax? If your best bet to beating Jax is picking Malphite, then why aren't the pros picking Malphite against Jax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSnafu View Post
bump
Really? Did this thread really need a bump?


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White Pony

Senior Member

11-12-2012

This works in theory, except that not all people own all champions and can play all roles. In a perfect world, we'd pick by this common sense order. The fact is, though, that some people just aren't good at the position they queued up for. Say the first pick guy sucks at supporting, so you want him to pick for someone who's good at support. Oh well, look at that, he doesn't have any support champions. He didn't pick first pick on purpose. He queued up and thats where it put him.

That's why I think calling your positions works better, because chances are if someone's calling a position, they're confident in their skill at that position. If you go by pick order and someone wanted top, and you pick top because you're a jerk and you're in order before him, all you've done essentially is take someone who could have been good in one position and make them play a position they're probably not going to be as valuable of an asset by playing. Trolling is one of the most destructive forces in the LoL community, much worse than we ever make it out to be.

I propose that Riot implements a "panic button" in the champion select screen, each player gets one. If everyone on your team presses your button, the lobby disbands and a report goes to riot saying you were causing an issue. A few of these in a short time frame, and you get banned for a day or two. its all semantics after that, but that's my idea. Riot could probably make it much better than my raw little thought.


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Blind Pick Hero

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Support and jungle can be counterpicked too. This pick order you have put forth isn't set in stone, there are other options like first picking champs that fill multiple roles and trading


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Goozik

Member

11-12-2012

I think you are making it far more complicated then it needs to be while also ignoring many things that affect the way people pick. I would say in general higher in elo , the more it matters what order your team takes their roles.

Things affecting picking:
1)Bans- If captain banned out a hard counter to their mid they want. As well as current "OP" champs not banned, if they are first pick after bans then it may be good for the team to take it. Even more so when it's a OP champ that can go multi role.
2)Rune pages- Many people still play on 2 rune pages and are not currently set up to do well in one or two other roles.(it's a bit of a separate issue with rune pages, but it's still a factor to consider when picking.)
3)Duo partners, often these people can really excel in a cple roles where these people can roam to their buddy and help in game.
4)Counter picking is only applicable when people can do it. To put it another way and the way I often put in in pregame chat."Taking a solo lane with an earlier pick, has a higher chance to be hard countered. But I know pick order has priority so gl with your selection"


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
You're set to dominate the lane. Sure. IF you know how to play the counter pick champion at least as well as the person who is playing the champion you are countering knows how to play that champion.



So, you'd have me believe that if I'm playing top lane for my team, and the enemy team picks a top lane Jax, my team is better of having me play Malphite (who I've played like twice) then say a Riven or Volibear, both of which I've played as tons of times and I'm very familiar with.

Because this HAS to be the point you're making, otherwise, my point "counter picks don't mean as much as you think they mean" is still valid. If I'm better off playing a Riven that I'm familiar with than a Malphite that I'm unfamiliar with against Jax, despite Malphite being a counter, then the same would be true to my opponent. If I first pick Jax, they're better off picking a champion that they're good with instead of a champion that's specifically a Jax counter.

Now granted, maybe Malphite is their main, and if so, I would've been better off picking someone other than Jax. Because if we're both playing our mains, and we're both roughly equal in skill, and your main is a counter to my main, you'll probably win lane.

But the fact of the matter is, most players aren't good enough with a wide enough range of champions to exploit all of these counters. Heck, if Malphite is such a good counter to Jax, why don't we see Malphite in the tournaments nearly as often as we see Jax? If your best bet to beating Jax is picking Malphite, then why aren't the pros picking Malphite against Jax?



Really? Did this thread really need a bump?

you really have no argument this is all just a bunch of random what ifs. I can say What if X to absolutely any good idea besides the laws of physics and even those can change with time.


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Mageinta Warrior

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Laws of Physics do not change. Accepted theories/values do.


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mageinta Warrior View Post
Laws of Physics do not change. Accepted theories/values do.

a Law is just a theory that we cant find any flaws in yet. As science improves flaws may or may not be found making what used to be a law again a theory. To say for a fact a Law will never change we would have to know everything there is to know. Which is impossible


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeezy102 View Post
This works in theory, except that not all people own all champions and can play all roles. In a perfect world, we'd pick by this common sense order. The fact is, though, that some people just aren't good at the position they queued up for. Say the first pick guy sucks at supporting, so you want him to pick for someone who's good at support. Oh well, look at that, he doesn't have any support champions. He didn't pick first pick on purpose. He queued up and thats where it put him.

That's why I think calling your positions works better, because chances are if someone's calling a position, they're confident in their skill at that position. If you go by pick order and someone wanted top, and you pick top because you're a jerk and you're in order before him, all you've done essentially is take someone who could have been good in one position and make them play a position they're probably not going to be as valuable of an asset by playing. Trolling is one of the most destructive forces in the LoL community, much worse than we ever make it out to be.

I propose that Riot implements a "panic button" in the champion select screen, each player gets one. If everyone on your team presses your button, the lobby disbands and a report goes to riot saying you were causing an issue. A few of these in a short time frame, and you get banned for a day or two. its all semantics after that, but that's my idea. Riot could probably make it much better than my raw little thought.
What i said is really just meant for ranked games. And if your playing ranked consistently you should be at least competent at every role.


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Grollm

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Honestly there are so many factors that come into play with picking and counterpicking. Yes it's important and some champs do get shut down hard by certain picks, but you throw a jungler into the mix it doesn't necessarily mean you are going to lose the lane and vice versa. I am a very good ryze and I had an Anivia try to "counter-pick"me mid. I ended up destroying her in lane even though she "countered"me. Just because your skill set is better utilized against certain champs doesn't necessarily mean you are going to win your lane against that champ. It's up to you to use your skill set as best utilized and like other posters said if you're not good with the said counterpick it doesn't matter if you counter them or not. If you're playing against a Ryze who has 300 games under his belt and it's your 3rd time playing Anivia ever, you're probably gonna get stomped.


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PoisonedPeace

Senior Member

11-13-2012

If you are good with the champs you play then you shouldnt have much of a problem, even when counter picked, especially with the jungling factor. You have to adapt your playstyle to each game and exploit weaknesses no matter who the enemy champ is.