Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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Ask Tyrant Swain

Member

11-09-2012

FoN passive jumping over to Warmongs?


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SpamMasubi

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Does this mean Randiuns becamse cheaper?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
19 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
Is Ionic spark really that weak given that it also has attack speed on it? I've always known it was a weaker item, but I've been using it a lot on Irelia lately, and I've really done well with it. Is that simply because Irelia scales so well with cheap attack speed?
I spoke to this before in the first introduction post to Season 3 - but yes. Attack Speed has been undercosted for a long time now and characters that have scaled really well with Attack Speed (like Irelia) has been hit by continuous nerfs because of how cheap their itemization is.

It's also one of the reasons why Ranged Carries seem to explode late game. They're limited by Attack Damage and Critical Strike statistics to gain access to damage - but then Attack Speed is so cheap that they can then explode through item based AS, as Attack Speed is one of the statistics you get the least of through level scaling.


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HawksGoCAW

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueOctave View Post
Xypherous, one of the primary reasons you gave for removing Ionic Spark was that it was a niche item that was too similar to items such as Wit's End. But in my opinion there are plenty more niche items than the ones that you listed in this thread, so I am not counting that as a valid reason. (Especially considering you want to expand diversity in builds...which is what niche items do.)

So my question is, what item should tanks build to increase their DPS efficiently when there aren't many if any AP champs on the other team?
You could get:
Wriggle's Lantern for Armor+AD
Phage for Health+AD
Atma's Impaler (lol)
Wit's End
Hexdrinker

Because let's face it, there's going to be some magic damage being dealt.


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xethik

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
SotO / Mejai / Leviathan you mean?

Out of these items, Mejai's is the only one that actually works in the current state of the game, I believe. Levi's core concept I think isn't very salvage-able, unfortunately - being a defensive snowball item kind of fights itself in so many ways.

Although whenever I think about SoTO - it should work for the same reason that Mejai's works - but it's never materialized. Like, there's enough AP casters who are so safe that opting into extra risk for additional power is a great contexual buy, like Lux or Eve, for example... but there's no parallel in the AD world.
Related to the last part (and this isn't really your question to answer, I guess), is there any idea for new AD Carry design? Recent AD carries have stepped away from the AD Carry power dias of having 4 core abilities: burst, mobility, steroid (Attack Speed is often the best), and utility. Will you be designing items to fit carries that don't work here? Or are these carries simply balanced around the fact that they don't have the escape or steroid that comes with the late game carry powerhouses we love/hate? (Graves, Corki, Ezreal, etc.) It's tough to make an item to work with other carries but not these while still being effective. Carries shouldn't be untouchable, but playing someone like Varus late is just awful if they have two gap closers.


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HawksGoCAW

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I spoke to this before in the first introduction post to Season 3 - but yes. Attack Speed has been undercosted for a long time now and characters that have scaled really well with Attack Speed (like Irelia) has been hit by continuous nerfs because of how cheap their itemization is.

It's also one of the reasons why Ranged Carries seem to explode late game. They're limited by Attack Damage and Critical Strike statistics to gain access to damage - but then Attack Speed is so cheap that they can then explode through item based AS, as Attack Speed is one of the statistics you get the least of through level scaling.
Does this mean a viable alternative to Phantom Dancer at last?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
20 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
So my question is, what item should tanks build to increase their DPS efficiently when there aren't many if any AP champs on the other team?
Assuming you're running into a team that's purely physical damage - Thornmail/Sunfire Cape becomes the highest source of DPS for a tank. If you're a mana based tank, there's always the possibility of getting a Sheen and upgrading it to the Tank version of Sheen.

Quote:
Does this mean a viable alternative to Phantom Dancer at last?
Eh. I'm not sure. Phantom Dancer will always be a good option, in my opinion - and there's nothing wrong with that. However, there's one or two items that let you specialize into more burst damage than PD at the cost of sustained damage.


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TiberiusAudley

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Adjudicator

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I spoke to this before in the first introduction post to Season 3 - but yes. Attack Speed has been undercosted for a long time now and characters that have scaled really well with Attack Speed (like Irelia) has been hit by continuous nerfs because of how cheap their itemization is.

It's also one of the reasons why Ranged Carries seem to explode late game. They're limited by Attack Damage and Critical Strike statistics to gain access to damage - but then Attack Speed is so cheap that they can then explode through item based AS, as Attack Speed is one of the statistics you get the least of through level scaling.
What about when you have a 65% attack speed permanently throughout a game once a certain champion hits level 9?


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DirtyNate

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

I think it's unfair to say that Ionic Spark is never a good buy. Wickd used it on Irelia in a pro game and there was a recent reddit thread about how good it is with Wit's End.

I for one, after reading the reddit thread, made an on hit lulu 3v3 build. And have found it to be amazing. Unlike an AD carry you have early game presence with your passive and your CC. And while an AD carry scales with AD, Crit, AS, APen, you get almost as much with On-hit dmg, AS, MPen. Also your fight control even late game is so far more than any AD carry can provide. And I find I do way better against tanky bruisers doing sustained on-hit magic damage, then I ever did trying to burst them down with just my Q and E and a bunch of AP.

My build is boots (highly situational but can be upgraded to beserkers, mercury, or ninja tabi), philo stone, malady, wit's end, shurelyas (sometimes I end up selling if the game goes forever and I need damage over survivability, if so I build it into a stinger), new death sword item, and ionic spark. This build works well for me in ARAMS as well, but I've had trouble making it effective in SR. Anyways not sure what this Shiv is of which you speak but removing the ionic spark will significantly nerf the build.

So please don't say it's never a good buy. It's won me a lot of 3v3 games recently. =)


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Steven Mcburn

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksGoCAW View Post
You could get:
Wriggle's Lantern for Armor+AD
Phage for Health+AD
Atma's Impaler (lol)
Wit's End
Hexdrinker

Because let's face it, there's going to be some magic damage being dealt.
Only item out of that that gives as is witt's, and that gives mr (against an ap light team that's worthless).

Only item that gives health out of that is phage, which can be built with ionic and atmas to give you real good all round tanky damage against an ad heavy team..