Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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Gespens

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ionic Spark doesn't work in this context. There's too many conditionals that you have to hop through to access the actual power of the item. From the multi-attack trigger, to the champion context - the conditionals make Ionic Spark too conditional to actually work.

That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something. However, something that gives health, takes 4 attacks to proc and deals a fixed amount of magic damage makes the effect niche-on-niche unnecessarily.
Wasn't there a suggestion on making it just an Armor version of Wit's End?


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Ryan Matsushima

Member

11-09-2012

Who are these idiots in charge of altering game content?


Why the fvck would you remove an item because it's rarely used? How the fvck does that affect gameplay? The only reason to delete an item is if its OP, which begs the question why are you dipsh!ts deleting items like Ionic.


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Gespens

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Matsushima View Post
Who are these idiots in charge of altering game content?


Why the fvck would you remove an item because it's rarely used? How the fvck does that affect gameplay? The only reason to delete an item is if its OP, which begs the question why are you dipsh!ts deleting items like Ionic.
If an item is rarely used, no reason to have it.

the issue is that the items dont do what they are supposed to very well.


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Auronnj

Senior Member

11-09-2012

love the changes so far! get the dang patch out already


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Aphoristic

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11-09-2012

Xypherous, why you are on the topic of trap items, are we still going to be keeping the stackable items?


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Ginga

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11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something. However, something that gives health, takes 4 attacks to proc and deals a fixed amount of magic damage makes the effect niche-on-niche unnecessarily.
Sweet! Glad you know that we like the chain lightning procs!


Mind if I make a suggestion/request?


Look at the Lightning Shrine's lightning in Dominion. That buff makes you shoot lightning regardless of what damage you inflict, not just AA like Ionic Spark.


If you ever make a new lightning shooting item to replace Ionic Spark, can it please proc on abilities as well as AA damage?

It would open up so much more possibilities than Ionic Spark. And be so COOL to see Teemo zap a person from across the map.

PS - or that item could be an Armour version of Wit's End. Providing armour per hit and a flat amount rather than MR. There is a lack of AS+Armour item afterall.


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Drukyul

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something.
Fiora players everywhere say thanks.


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CupcakeTrap

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11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
MtG has the space to use bad cards as part of their learning process? Why? The entire deck construction phase is testing your filtering skill as a player. Learning what cards work well with you and what cards don't work in the context of your 60 cards is something that is done in isolation - without time pressure - and fairly independent of the opponent.

While this is a skill that *can* be used to determine which player is better than the other, a real time game shouldn't test this facet - especially when trial and error has a very real cost to the current game that you're in. It's one of those 'We want you to focus on beating the opponent - not trying to figure out what bad items we put in to try to trick you or teach you a lesson.'

I've given this criteria before on niche items - It has to appear like what it actually is - It actually has to be good and fulfill the purpose of what it actually looks like.

Thornmail, for example, works really well in this context. It's a niche armor counter for when they have multiple autoattacking AD. It's not a generalist pick - nor is it generally good - but when it works, it works well and exactly how you expect.

Ionic Spark doesn't work in this context. There's too many conditionals that you have to hop through to access the actual power of the item. From the multi-attack trigger, to the champion context - the conditionals make Ionic Spark too conditional to actually work.

That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something. However, something that gives health, takes 4 attacks to proc and deals a fixed amount of magic damage makes the effect niche-on-niche unnecessarily.

This doesn't work either. Items that perform similar functions nerf each other if they're in the same availability pool because they have to be balanced for the stacked case potential. True, you could make them non-stacking based on some kind of qualifier - but if the effects serve the same purpose in very different ways, you're never going to get to a good place. Imagine having the old Stark's and Zeke's in the same item pool. Both items have to suck as AS/LS auras because your team can have two of them - and deciding which aura should stack better is fairly arbitrary.
Hey Xyph! ratcharmer made some interesting suggestions in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratcharmer View Post
I know these threads are already packed with item suggestions, but I figured since we're sorta brainstorming anyway I might as well toss out a couple things I'd like to see on a support item.

Scouting abilities
Right now supports devote insane amount of gp towards wards. Other scouting items could help alleviate this.
-Ward placing active: similar to Wriggle's. This would really cut down on the amount of money devoted to wards. Has been suggested lot's of times by lots of people.It's looks like they're giving us this with sightstone.
-Revealing mist: Similar to Hextech Sweeper. This would be an interesting alternative to Oracle's elixir without the 400 gp "death penalty" making supports even more gp starved.

On-hit abilities
Basically any on-hit effect that doesn't stack with itself has the potential to be great for harass-oriented supports without being abusable for other champions. These would also help to make a support champion's auto attack relevant late game. Right now I frequently feel like I might as well not even have an auto attack past the ten minute mark (unless I'm using power chord as Sona).
-Heal reduction: This would help make harass damage "Stick". While a true grievous wound 50% reduction would probably be OP, a 10-25% heal reduction that didn't stack with itself (or other heal reduction) could be workable.
-DoT: For a while at least Teemo was considered a decent support pick (not sure how he stands now) primarily because of his great poke ability.
-AD reduction: Not only would this help you win trades, but you could interfere with you opponent's farm etc.

Stats
We all know that supports go for CDR, gp/10 and mp regen. The problem is that all three of these stats have pretty set-in-stone limits on how much you can get. CDR has a hard cap at 40%, mp regen is only relevant up to a point and then you have all the mp you need and if too much gp/10 is available then other classes will abuse it. So here's a couple other stats that are handy on supports.
-Movespeed: A passive movespeed bonus (similar to phantom dancer) would be a great boon to a support. They could roam better, place wards more quickly, position better and get back in lane more quickly after placing/buying wards. What's more options for getting movespeed on a support are currently limited to boots and shurelia's acitive.
-Survivability: There is no champion in the game who doesn't benefit for being a little more tanky.

On-cast abilities
Blackfire torch has an effect that triggers when you cast a spell on an opponent. I think a cool support item would be one that triggers an effect when you cast a spell on an ally. Something like "when you cast a spell on an ally, that ally gains X for 5 seconds". The options for what "X" could be are quite literally infinite, so I'm not going to try and list them out.

Now here's a few things I don't want on support items
-Anything that actively penalizes a support for getting kills/cs.
-Anything that makes supports more dependent on teammates.
-Any stat penalties (supports do little enough damage already).
-Any item that only supports can buy.
I like the idea of a true sight item that doesn't have a "death penalty". Right now, it's sort of too dangerous to put oracle's on anyone who isn't a tank.

But I really love the idea of items that give bonus support abilities, like AD shred or grievous wound. (I guess that's what Morello's Evil Tome is for? But it doesn't sound like the 5th goldstream is going to be large enough for supports to afford pricey items like that until very late in the game. Besides, it has a ton of AP, which isn't a great stat on most supports.)


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Steven Mcburn

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gespens View Post
If an item is rarely used, no reason to have it.

the issue is that the items dont do what they are supposed to very well.
Warmogs used to be never used. Atmas used to be never used. BV is rarely used.

Tons of items are "niche" and not removed because they're "barely used".


Removing content is never a good way of doing things.


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Gespens

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Mcburn View Post
Warmogs used to be never used. Atmas used to be never used. BV is rarely used.

Tons of items are "niche" and not removed because they're "barely used".


Removing content is never a good way of doing things.
MBR is a tank shred item that doesn't really shred tanks.
Ionic Spark is an item that just doesn't make sense for what it does.