Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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GustavoHmp

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itstwoftlong View Post
Cool. I can't wait to see what else we have coming (ie. quit whining until you know all the facts/new items, community).
Nonono we must question the changes even though we dont know half of it!
Also he took away an item I personally used in a wacky unoptimized build, he is wrong!


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Redekshon

Member

11-09-2012

Force of Nature - Removed

! RIOT I HATE YOU!


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BroughtMyFgame

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by serratedblade View Post
Edit: SO Ioinc Spark is being removed, and madreds bloodrazor is being removed

There Idea for making more Build paths is by removing Items, Why cant they make more and buff/ fix the existing ones?

so that leaves us with just malady and wits end for On-hit AS builds.

Thanks riot , but you just ruined this game for me.

now I cant build On-hit anymore in this new patch unless you introduce some godlike on-hit item that scales well enough like IE does.
If they ruined a game by potentially killing one very niche build path on a select few characters, maybe you need to reassess why you enjoy this game.


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Allegories

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

If there going to be some sort of replacement for HoG? Because supports do not truly need Kage's or Avarice Blade, so besides the gold income there is no benefit for them. Also, all in supports become a lot worse if they don't have a HoG to back them up incase something goes wrong.

I agree that HoG is too good, but is there something a little worse but still benefit supports?


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serratedblade

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.

Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.
So what If you want to build Straight up On-hit/ AS
like Wits end, malady, MBR, Ionic spark
since you are saying you only will be dealing flat magic dmg
and it doesn't scale
well what about AD items they have flat AD, but they have life steal and crit to make them scale.
why not ad a unique pasive on a on-hit item that makes other on hit items scale as well.
like increasing the effectiveness of other on hit abilities by a certain percent.

but why should i argue my point when you already made you decision.


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Patroks

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.

Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.
I what ways is the new item BOTRK going to be different? (Actual question, not a remark)


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BroughtMyFgame

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redekshon View Post
Force of Nature - Removed

! RIOT I HATE YOU! YOU ARE THE incompetent, useless do not know anything!!
Mmm, yes, you know so much more about the game's balance than the creators.

Must be a Singed main.


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Buttocks Daddy

Senior Member

11-09-2012

What do you think of remaking Ionic Spark's passive into a defensive item? Making chain lightning strike out every four times you're hit, perhaps dealing (damage you received before reduction/4) damage every four times you're hit by an auto-attack among up to 5 targets nearby? It would certainly look cooler than thronmail!


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DSSCRA

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
In general, the removals have focused on ones that warp gameplay around itself to the point where no other items can exist or ones that prevents the creation of items that would encourage flexibility in builds.

For example - There is no item that can compete with Heart of Gold. It fits into any build that doesn't run raw damage and is never a bad idea. There is no reason for any other tier 1 item to exist when Heart of Gold does.

In the case of FoN - You can't create many additional MS% or MR options when FoN exists - because the stacked potential would excessively strong. MR and MS% destroy mages when they're readily available as a mage's main safety is range and burst.

Any additional MR/MS% options added to the game would have to also necessitate nerfing FoN as well the items would've had to be balanced to the stacked case - rather than the individual case.
this argument doesn't really hold up when you are removing ionic spark also no replacement for FoN's unique regen passive sucks


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IS131c7cb285e774

Member

11-09-2012

Xypherous, I'm really glad you're into the items rework. So far as I've been watching, you're pumping really innovative and potentially good concepts, while excluding some toxic (must buy or only-way) and obsolete items.

I'll be impressed if you don't release a new item with an on-hit passive, since it's quite a tradition of yours on champion designs. :P

Jokes apart, awesome job so far!