Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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Watafool

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I'm so excited for season 3 with all of the changes to the items coming in. I think the game will feel a lot fresher than it did from season 1 - season 2.

The one thing that makes me sad though is that this isn't going to be the season that Riot gets it "right". There's no way. With this many changes to the jungle and items coming in, there's a lot of room for error and I don't think it's possible that they'll find all of it before the end of the season.

On that note, do you guys think that there will ever be any settling on major gameplay changes? Or will Riot change it every season to keep it fresh?


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HikariKnight View Post
I'm liking all the changes except one. FoN? What was the reason for removing this? It was a great item on it's own.

Tanks and Bruisers loved it for the MR and MS, but i do see how it having Hp/5 a bit off, and it didn't make it a terrible bad item. But it still worked well.

I see no reason to remove it but change it, keep the popular stats on it, MR MS, and simply change the Hp/5 to something more desirable for anyone to benefit. I.E. HP, just to put out there.
It's more about how it had the most MR, the only MS and possibly the highest HP5, all on 1 item with the price that it required.
So if you wanted bruiser MS, you had to buy HP5 and MR.
If you wanted a huge amount of MR, you were terribly well served (this item was a perfect counter to mages).
If you wanted HP5, for a poke comp maybe, you had to buy both MR and MS, which you might not require a lot...


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Here's the core difference - Sightstone doesn't net you advantage if you are passive. Having wards provides safety - but Heart of Gold actually nets you advantage by passive play due to your passive GP/10 will override the value of active play.

You're not going to win the lane any harder by being safe - whereas HoG causes you to win the lane harder by being hard to burst.



Well, to be fair, resource-less champions get a huge advantage in the fact that.. they're resourceless to begin with. Your early itemization starts can be far more aggressive due to this fact.
I'm sure that support Garen and support Rengar and support Shen think that an aggressive initial item is a great way to win lane as a support.

Or maybe they think that having no gp10 items is the best way to make them completely unviable late game support champions.


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Apperition

Member

11-10-2012

will this count fiddles drain?


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watafool View Post
I'm so excited for season 3 with all of the changes to the items coming in. I think the game will feel a lot fresher than it did from season 1 - season 2.

The one thing that makes me sad though is that this isn't going to be the season that Riot gets it "right". There's no way. With this many changes to the jungle and items coming in, there's a lot of room for error and I don't think it's possible that they'll find all of it before the end of the season.

On that note, do you guys think that there will ever be any settling on major gameplay changes? Or will Riot change it every season to keep it fresh?
The moment that the competitive scene is healthy, changes such as major item overhauls and jungle reworks and such will stop...

As for the mistakes, it's obvious that some new MBR/Ionic (noob traps) will crawl through with the rest. The thing is, they will now most probably, be fixable... in the worst case, we end up with a system that is proportionally as broke nas the current one, but with more interactive and interesting choices...


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Apollinarius

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
In general, the removals have focused on ones that warp gameplay around itself to the point where no other items can exist or ones that prevents the creation of items that would encourage flexibility in builds.

For example - There is no item that can compete with Heart of Gold. It fits into any build that doesn't run raw damage and is never a bad idea. There is no reason for any other tier 1 item to exist when Heart of Gold does.

In the case of FoN - You can't create many additional MS% or MR options when FoN exists - because the stacked potential would excessively strong. MR and MS% destroy mages when they're readily available as a mage's main safety is range and burst.

Any additional MR/MS% options added to the game would have to also necessitate nerfing FoN as well the items would've had to be balanced to the stacked case - rather than the individual case.
Considering that Lichbane and FoN gave 7% and 8% respectively but Trinity Force and Phantom Dancer give 12% MS, I feel that champions who use the latter two were at a huge advantage against casters and tanks.

Are there any plans to bring all MS bonuses in line with each other? All items should give 8% and it should not be stackable. Something like that.

Last tournament saw multiple games where one team had as many as 3 trinity forces on one side.


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollinarius View Post
I'm sure that support Garen and support Rengar and support Shen think that an aggressive initial item is a great way to win lane as a support.

Or maybe they think that having no gp10 items is the best way to make them completely unviable late game support champions.
Your point is invalid,what he said is : "You don't get stronger by building this passive item", and you answer : "Building offensive items will starve me"... You are basically both describing the same point, and the same solution... You NEED passive items to actually scale ok into late game... but Xyph says, on top of it, that it would be pretty handy if that item didn't promote passive play to the point that both you and the opponent got denied some aggression by simply buying this item on either of you (You are weaker than wit ha real item, and you prefer to farm since you can still do it pretty well and it synergizes with GP5. The opponent has more trouble killing you and must thus focus more on farming to not get very outscaled)


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NC Daj

Member

11-10-2012

I can see Katarina, Jax and Lee Sin picking up a Sightstone towards the end of their builds for cheap wall-jumping. Especially if the Sightstone builds into better items that keep the ward passive.

Which brings me to the question...
Do the items that Sightstone builds into also have the ward passive?


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Dragull2

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

[...]
However, raw buffing Ionic Spark in this context makes Shen a monster - which then necessitates Shen nerfs - which pretty much locks Shen to only buying Ionic Spark to stay relevant - which is kind of a terrible thing.
Question I've been wanting to ask for a long time: Doesn't Vladimir falls in the same category?
He is not awful, but significantly weaker without Hextech Revolver. Don't you think this is an issue that should be fixed?


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kirby145x

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
You say Graves / Caitlyn / Ezreal. I say Master Yi / Tryndamere / Fiora.

Tomato. TOMATO
Neither. NEITHER
Let's call the whole thing off!
Yet the movespeed on PD is getting nerfed. Even less reason for a melee to waste inventory space on an item that was terrible on them before nerfing it again. No defense on a melee AD item is a huge slot cost.