Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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Romra

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st HanarSpectre View Post
You can't lifesteal or spellvamp from on hit effect.
... There's not really been a physical damage on hit effect, unless you're talking about bonus damage from on-hit skills, which you can lifesteal from.


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Doggydog123579

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowcide View Post
Math fail. If only tanks and carries had the same armor...
TIL true damage is lowered by armor.


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Lazien

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

We like the concept of a character being able to 'overward' for his team - but we didn't like the fact that it put this character at a bad spot. Limited wards doesn't solve this - as our concern isn't primarily about the amount of vision on the map but who has to pay the cost for the vision on the map. Furthermore, the linear scaling cost of wards meant that gold to vision coverage also scaled linearly - that is, the more gold you can put into vision, the more vision you'd get on a 1:1 ratio.

Sightstone essentially throws a huge curve into gold efficiency ratio for vision to gold. Sightstone says if a character spends X gold on wards, they get this many wards, but for additional vision, you're going to pay a heavy cost. Before it was simply assumed that the support would pay this cost. Sightstone introduces a 'sweet' spot, so to speak - such that if you are okay with a limited amount of vision up to X wards) - you're fine - but any more than that starts getting expensive very quickly in terms of both slot and gold efficiency.
This kinda scares me, sure ALL supports will have a Sightstone and I think that's great. But I think the meta will change to force ALL junglers (or maybe tanks to a lesser degree) to buy a sight stone too. I can just see it now, new jungler meta is wriggles/Sightstone to ward top and both mid bush while support wards bot lane. I mean with harder jungles what else will the jungler do because he can't gank as much?

Gonna love the new report tickets from AP Mid screaming that he was ganked BECAUSE THE STUPID JUNGLER DIDN'T WARD MY LANE!!! or "@#$#$#$% Noob Jungler didn't ward top/mid again GG I surrender, report noob jungler". In addition to the ever popular "Noob Jungler NEVER GANKS" from the new harder jungle creeps.

I honestly dont know how I feel about this. I'm just airing out my thoughts I guess. I mean if it helps the lanes to gain more itemization and do their job better never buying another ward then fine I guess. I just don't think jungling will be as much fun anymore with the increased running around warding that "may" take place.


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Wet N Sandy

Junior Member

11-10-2012

So this may seem a little irrelevant, but will there be any update to the artwork of the items? The Twisted Treeline items look fresh and interesting, I feel as though they could all use a touch up.


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Connarhea

Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ionic Spark is bad because it has a large set of conditions attached to it, some of which you can't control (whether you are doing well in the game or not, whether or not you can get 4 attacks in or not.)

However, if you fulfilled these conditions, the effect is worth the cost. Shen, for example, can force a situation where Ionic Spark is good for him... most of the time.

However, the problem in raw numerical buffs to an item is that it isn't the effect or the net result that is bad - it's that the conditionals are too harsh. For Ionic Spark specifically - Health is an odd conditional statistic that is great early game and terrible late game. The grouping and 4-hit conditional are really hard to resolve in most cases without the item simply tipping from conditionally good to always overpowered.
Why not just leave it in then. It isn't harming anyone because it's too OP so as long as you know when to use it, it remains a viable item


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Flamingfurball

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

A lot of Pro player feedback centers around this fact as well. They tend to hate Oracle sweeping being a concept and would prefer the game revolve more around Pink Ward strategies.

So what about the concept of adding a consumable or an item effect that works similar to dusts of appearance from DoTA as a replacement for it

i mean im no pro player but i always feel like oracles is just such an un-fun thing because at the end of the day you can easily avoid death in most games unless the enemy team is absolutly gunning for you, or waiting to ambush you when you come to sweep


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ThaddeusMike

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Because it's what we refer to as a "noob trap" - an item that seems powerful and looks attractive, but actually gimps your build in almost any situation.

Under your justification, we should just release 100 new items with a random smattering of stats. Meanwhile, someone who hasn't done the math is buying these items and doesn't understand why he can't get the job done.
I still object to the characterization of Ionic Spark as a noob trap. It sees high level play on two very popular champions (shen, irelia), and if certain other champions made it to high level (volibear) it would see play on them too. It is very niche, but I don't get why it isn't a balanced niche item.


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n8z

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Recruiter

11-10-2012

Hey Xypherous. If you're changing how Warwick's and Malzahar's ultimate to not be countered by Quicksilver Sash, then how does this impact Skarner's Impale?


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ThaddeusMike

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I spoke to this before in the first introduction post to Season 3 - but yes. Attack Speed has been undercosted for a long time now and characters that have scaled really well with Attack Speed (like Irelia) has been hit by continuous nerfs because of how cheap their itemization is.

It's also one of the reasons why Ranged Carries seem to explode late game. They're limited by Attack Damage and Critical Strike statistics to gain access to damage - but then Attack Speed is so cheap that they can then explode through item based AS, as Attack Speed is one of the statistics you get the least of through level scaling.
So what you're saying is Tristana is getting really strong indirect buffs? Cool.


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Brobat

Senior Member

11-10-2012

You know Riot you really should be announcing more new items rather than telling us about what features you're removing. Taking out Ionic Spark (a fan favorite) instead of reworking it and Heart of Gold (instead of nerfing it) is only going to make people upset especially since we currently have such little information about other changes.

I am currently very mad about the removal of Heart of Gold but I might be a little less mad if I knew what Randuin/Locket/Pillager's new build paths are, or what buffs are happening to the other GP/10s to compensate...because the loss of the only GP/10 that gave survivability is going to make Support even less fun to play for many people. I thought the Jungle change was supposed to be the thing to discourage people from getting GP/10s on Junglers but apparently the solution is to just remove the item because you don't want to attempt to balance it.

Just my opinion on things.