CS-ing after the 15ish min mark?

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MiLdLYirriTaTed

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Around the 15 min mark when the tier 1 turrets are down and people start grouping up and going gank squads, I'm a little confused as to what I should do. Should I stick with my team and go on the mini gank squads? Or should I go back to lane and continue to cs?

I never hit 200+ cs by the 20-25 min mark and usually I'm too busy engaging in team fights to ever try. How do people get cs that high after laning phase?


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Guyron

Member

01-10-2014

Well first of all, you play a TON of Co op vs AI so cs really doesnt matter because the enemy will have like 10 at 20 min. But for normal games, at least for me, the first turret doesn't normally go down until like the 18 min mark unless one team is destroying. Just try to always farm and make sure you are getting the last hits. Just try to farm and dont roam around the whole map the whole game and you shold do pretty well in cs.


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MiLdLYirriTaTed

Senior Member

01-10-2014

I do play a lot of Co-Op games I generally practice my cs-ing and build orders there. Not as easy to do in normal games (I play like 5 normal games a week on a good week). CS-ing is still hard for me but I feel like I got a lot better than I used to be. Not nearly good enough though I'm nowhere near close to 200 CS by the 20 min mark and usually around this time in my normal games I'm ganking or being ganked in other lanes and the roaming period begins. People begin to share CS or engage enemy team. So I'm trying to learn the proper way to do this is all.


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DreadPirateChris

Senior Member

01-10-2014

I'm new myself so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice, but I feel like I know the answer to this. At this stage of the game you go back to your lane (as a slight priority) or else any unattended lane and wipe up out whole waves of creeps (just killing, not last hitting) and then regroup. With map awareness, of course, so don't be in alone clearing a lane while three or four enemy champs are coming for you. With lifesteal or spellvamp this also saves you from traveling home to heal if you weren't ready to buy something anyway.

(You don't need CS though if you're getting kills and assists, but the lanes still need creep control, and better on your schedule than waiting until they are at your door.) I get this from reading guides and watching other players, so though I'm new, it's not like I'm just making this up. (Of course, if I misunderstood something, someone more experienced feel free to explain.)


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cpandarun

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Senior Member

01-10-2014

This is a tough question because at different skill levels the map is going to look different. In lower level matches a lot of the time the two teams are going to be grouped up in mid having small skirmishes. While in higher level matches the laning phase continues a bit longer. Generally though if you can make a positive difference you should join your team if they're grouping up. If you can't make a positive difference (such as you got set back in lane) then continue to farm and try to and get your team to calm down so you can get some items for team fights. If the enemy is grouped up and trying to force objectives and this can be hard to do in solo que but if everyone buys a ward and continues to split push safely this can put the roaming team far behind in gold and exp.


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Melvear

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadPirateChris View Post
I'm new myself so maybe I shouldn't be giving advice, but I feel like I know the answer to this. At this stage of the game you go back to your lane (as a slight priority) or else any unattended lane and wipe up out whole waves of creeps (just killing, not last hitting) and then regroup. With map awareness, of course, so don't be in alone clearing a lane while three or four enemy champs are coming for you. With lifesteal or spellvamp this also saves you from traveling home to heal if you weren't ready to buy something anyway.

(You don't need CS though if you're getting kills and assists, but the lanes still need creep control, and better on your schedule than waiting until they are at your door.) I get this from reading guides and watching other players, so though I'm new, it's not like I'm just making this up. (Of course, if I misunderstood something, someone more experienced feel free to explain.)
You almost ALWAYS want to last hit, even when clearing waves as fast as you can. Use your aoe abilities in a way that will maximize the amount of last hit you get. Auto attack every creep a few times before dropping your aoe in order to last hit them all at once. The only time where last hits don't matter is when you have nothing left to buy. 6 items, upgraded boots, double elixir, upgraded trinket. At that point you can just clear waves and not care, as long as the creeps can't be farmed by someone else on your team.
And getting kills is not a replacement for CS, it's a supplement.

Now, as far as CSing after laning has more or less ended, get everything you can wherever you are. Standstill at mid? Last hit creeps, get wraiths.
3 of your teammates are roaming and you see all your enemies on the map except the jungler? Keep farming your lane, and try to get your ganking team to go bot for the double kill + tower + dragon. If you have pressure top and mid, their laners can't leave the lane to go help elsewhere, or else they'll lose a tower.
Farm the jungle. Once laning has ended, your jungler won't be making full clear of his jungle anymore. Take camps when you can. Do leave the big creep to your jungler if he's near though, since he can use conservation stacks on hit and gain more gold than you.


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Nepolian

Senior Member

01-10-2014

Never forget about the jungle. If you're poking back and forth with the other team and you get a few seconds you can clear a small camp quickly. Just make sure that you can leave the camp and instantly be with your team if an fight starts, being 2 or 3 seconds late could possibly cause the fight to go badly.


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Morsigil

Senior Member

01-10-2014

It depends on the hero.

If I'm a carry, especially one that shines in the late game and not so much early and mid, then farming creep has a higher priority than participating in "gank squads". If your job is to carry you want as much xp and gold as possible, and chasing people around the map is a bet where laning is consistent.

Often I'll be farming bottom comfortably and I'll see people going in for a team fight mid, but if the dragon isn't up and I have to ask myself, "What will I contribute?" If you're behind on cs? Not much. If you're ahead and your team wins the fight maybe you can push the 2nd tier down and get a bunch of cs as well. If the dragon is up maybe that fight will lead to an objective or two, so maybe you should step away (especially if the lane is pushed).

Think of yourself like Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man... Gobbling little white pellets in the lane until you have to go elsewhere and going for those cherries (objectives) only after you take out the ghosts. Only go after ghosts when it's convenient or you've powered-up. =P Wakka wakka wakka wakaa wooo woo woo woo


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Mcbooze

Senior Member

01-10-2014

CSing should actually pick up and increase as the game goes on - you become stronger and usually w/ better aoe, and can clear camps pretty quickly. but real issue is having the map awareness to know what to be doing.

like if you watch high level players, they don't just follow each other around and hope to stumble onto somebody. they move w/ very specific purposes and ward extensively. either they are going to prepare for dragon, or to steal a buff, or to push a tower. so if you go bot lane, for example, at the 20 min marker as adc, and dragon is up, you need to be ready and prepared to help the team w/ that objective. and often times you'll have engagements before even getting there - catching somebody out of place trying to ward, a jungler moving blind, etc.

here's a good example of something i did: i was playing vi jungle and it was probably about the 12-15 min marker. i was at large wrath top side and i saw my bot lane was in the middle of lane. it was warded, no jungler around, so i started my wrath. however, bot lane dove hard and pushed my laners back almost immediately as i started the wrath. and rather than finish it, i immediately went to help and secured a double kill. had it been the opposite and my team dove, i would have finished the wrath b/c even if i had left at that moment, i likely wouldn't have arrived in time to secure any kill. but b/c they were coming towards me i immediately saw the opportunity and took it.


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iluvalar

Senior Member

01-10-2014

See it as a long term vs short term problem. If your team CS more and don't die, you will eventually win because of more exp and more gold. But of course, the more you are spread around the map, the more the teamfight will be hard and you will die there.

So the idea, I guess, is to CS just a little bit more then the opponent and strive to resist in teamfight. That's why in high elo, the race for the CS is quite intense while in low elo, the team dont know where to stop and regroup.