I dont understand why teams dont let supports

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Grollm

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I used the think the same thing when I mostly played support. Play adc, you will understand why CS is so important. 10 CS is equal to roughly 1 champion kill. So, you really have to let you adc get as much of the cs as possible.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Unless your support is perhaps a Zyra or Leona someone that can dish out a lot of damage that scales well to AP and the first GP10 they get is Kage's Lucky Pick, I feel like you're mostly going to be losing too many trades.

But with that said, suppose your support is a Zyra or Leona and you get a Kage's Lucky Pick rushed. If (and only if) you can translate this into beating up the enemy ADC enough that he has to back, then your ADC might be able to catch up by pushing the wave to the tower and making the enemy ADC lose last hits to the tower.


The problem is that HoG and PhiloStone don't add damage (unless you're Volibear), and most of the AP supports that would scale with KLP scale pretty poorly, and the gold it takes to put that together translates into a lot more combined damage between support/ADC if the ADC spends it.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I actually saw a match where Sona was given the golems to rush level 2.

She pretty much controlled the lane and bullied the AD/Support out of lane for hers to free farm.

Likely from the shock factor, but you have to consider that supports have extra power packed into them as a base line ~and then have very poor scaling~ to ensure they don't become carries themselves.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Yea, like I said, letting the support take golems is fine. It doesn't put the ADC at a disadvantage to the enemy support.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

By the way, with all this said, I try to let my ADC know when I'm nearing enough gold to buy my first GP10 so that we can get the lane pushed and I can B (or both of us) without leaving him in a tight spot (it also minimizes the XP I lose if we push lane before either of us shop).


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Wickian

Senior Member

11-09-2012

If you're going B to shop as a support before you can afford a GP10 anyway, you're doing something wrong.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickian View Post
If you're going B to shop as a support before you can afford a GP10 anyway, you're doing something wrong.
Depends. Sometimes it's necessary if their jungle is camping your lane and you've run out of wards.


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Dpaladinx

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Supports usually have the worst gold making abilities ever, as they are dependent on gold over time (gold per 10 seconds) and must let their ADC score the CS. Thus being said, if you get the gold runes as well as maxing Wealth and Greed mastery in the utility mastery tree, then you really don't have to worry about scoring CS for gold (in the case for tanks like Taric or bruisers like Alistar, you should get the Mercenary mastery instead since you would need to be as beefy as suppose). Remember, like tanks, most of the support's gold will be from scoring champion assists or kills (and g10 items) instead of CS.

For the G10 items, I personally prefer rushing Philosopher's Stone and Heart of Gold (particularly for more squishier supports like Lulu, my main support). The item priority is auras. I personally get Zeke's Herald first to help improve my ADC partner's survivability. More importantly, the stone can transform later into Shurelya's Reverie or Eleisa's Miracle (although I prefer the later because the earlier doesn't create a useful aura item as a support, not to mention that I often build Zeke's Herald for the CDR effect). The Heart of Gold transforms into the Locket, which adds more survivability for both yourself and your ADC and a nice health regen aura for the boot. I usually don't build Kage's Lucky Pick or Avarice Blade because neither of these items build into useful aura items that is relevant to a support. In addition, the AP scaling for a support is very terrible when compared to mages, tanks, and AP based assassins. As such, I often build two to three aura items and boots for my support, and you definitely need to leave inventory space for wards since map awareness is your job as well.

Thus being said, support is one of the easiest roles to play as (the other is adc), but it's probably the most boring roles to play as since you need to babysit your carry for the early part of the game until mid-late game and you can't score any CS whatsoever early game.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

11-09-2012

This gets into something that I talk about in my guide on not losing (not an advertisement, but it's something I've thought about enough to put it in a guide).

Essentially in high-elo, every CS matters, because every small advantage matters, because they know how to take advantage of every mistake and snowball ridiculously from what started out as a hiccup.

Low Elo does not understand this but they see the high Elo players doing this and decide it's "how you play the game." They hold to it (though they don't really think about why, the simple "ADC needs the gold" is explanation enough for them), and the entire community buys into it, and there you have it - the meta.

Here's the deal. In low Elo, taking 5-10 CS from the carry will not make or break the game, and it *can* get you that Gp10 item much earlier. Ask the carry if he's cool with you grabbing a few cs just to rush the Gp10 process a little faster - especially if you aren't getting kills/assists. I see no harm in asking.

However, what you must realize is that the higher your Elo gets, the better the ADC's you play with will be, and the more they will need that early gold.

Also something to mention is that the gold you get in the first ten minutes is a lot more valuable (of more dominant worth) than the gold you can get late-game. Gold slowly loses it's value as the game goes on.

Think of it this way - 3800 gold will net you an Infinity Edge, which will more than double your damage output, when you consider the beefy crits + crit chance, and +80 AD. 3000 more gold will allow you to purchase a bloodthirster, giving you 60-100 more AD and lifesteal. This increases your potential damage/threat by about 50% at that point. Adding a PD for 2700 gold will increase your damage/threat by another 40ish%. Each additional item does marginally less overall. That first Doran's blade for 475 gold in high-elo is HUGE. An additional 80 health and 10 attack damage means that you win the all-in trade with 100 health left - enough to even survive a dive from a jungler in most cases. However in low elo, you can make up for your opponent's Doran's Blade with superior dueling ability - dodging skillshots or kiting effectively, or poking better, whatever. The skill differential is much less in high-elo, ergo items play a much more important role than they do in low-elo.

Hope this helped.


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Epictues

Senior Member

11-09-2012

it seems a lot of people seem to think supports add nothing at all to bottom fights and lane control.
if so, then sure the gp10 items on the support really are un important.

if that dorans blade is so vital on the adc, maybe the adc should take it easy and not go all in until he gets it or maybe the support can pick up the slack until he gets it.



point being that gp10 items become more effecient the earlier you get them, and on builds that are reliant on gp10 items for gold production and use more than one gp10 item, the earlier they get their first gp10 item the earlier they can start snowballing their gp10 process.


now practicallity and effeciency are two separate things. but from straight theory crafting perspective, its more effecient to help a support get that first gp 10 item right away.


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