Preseason Itemization Preview

First Riot Post
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MARV FR

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Any words about spell vamp overall ? You pretty much ruined Hextech and Wota based teams ( i.e kennen vlad double wota ) by nerfing hextech and wota twice in a row. Casters also suffered from this nerf ...


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SarenArterius

Senior Member

11-07-2012

holy god garen


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Member

11-07-2012

does madred work like black cleaver ? working on abilities too ?


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Daryslash

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

A little confused on this. We're going to hit flat armor / mr penetration values early game - because right now if you don't do flat armor and magic resistances early - you essentially have zero armor or magic resistance by 6 minutes into the game.

I think he was talking about this, from Morello:

Quote:
Early flat Magic Resistance and Armor prevent people from being killed even if they get really outplayed in lane
PS: Big fan of yours, Xyph.


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Eyaeda

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
There's two problems here:

1. Early game pen values were essentially tuned to be viable up until mid-game, which means that if you didn't stack early armor, you had zero armor.
So what are your goals for early game laning in regard to Armor vs. Ar.Pen? Is early Ar.Pen not intended to be the counter to early game Armor Stacking?

If not, what options do characters like Talon and Riven have in lane vs. Early Armor Stackers?


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vileelf

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

but flat reduction is done after percent reduction?


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Well - Yeah. But then you run up into a 3k HP Mundo/Singed with 80~ armor and massive regeneration and you're like 'Wait a second, you didn't build any armor! ABORT. ABORT. I REGRET EVERYTHING.'
HA!
Just pay attention to what you are doing and make sure you don't give someone wukong-esque armor shred and aoe potential ( who has the slipperness to pull it off) AND percentage health damage. In other words, wukong isn't a problem because if he is built this way he obviously caters his damage to a specific kind of target.

I can't think of anyone who has high percentage health damage, and armor shred.
The only champs with percentage health damage are:
vayne
kog
elise
brand
amumu
eve
fizz
lee sin
nasus
xin zhao
warwick

and the only ones that would pose a problem with balance are those that have some innate armor shred and some way to deal with high hp low armor targets. For example,

Xin zhao could possible handle a high health low armor meat shield by chunking them with his ult. He might not be able to duel them, but he can still do enough damage to them with his ult that it doesn't seem like building high amounts of health and low amounts of armor counter his armor shredding ways. Remember that challenged targets are armor shredded by 15% too.

Lee sin has enough mobility to escape any duel that he doesn't want to be a part of, and damage that scales up with the opponents health as they lose it; therefore, all he needs is enough sustain to overcome his health stacking opponent over time. And he has that. In lee sin's case, he doesn't really have armor shred, but he can afford to flat out stack armor penetration and reduction of all kinds without really worrying about being countered.


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Trael

Junior Member

11-07-2012

Hey,

It seems like much of the changes intended for season 3 are to allow for variety with builds and champions. Do these specific changes (and the other changes intended) spill into adjusting variety for runes? I hadn't seen much mention if it other than the broad adjustments to armor/magic resistance. This has always felt like a "stale" portion of the game, where the consequences are just too great if you don't take the early armor/magic resistance runes for the lane opponent that you are facing.

Thanks!


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-07-2012
11 of 29 Riot Posts

Quote:
Does this mean that a champ like Xerath that gets a void staff will become a late-game monster if he gets an early lead?
We may potentially have to go back and look at characters like Xerath / Darius - but honestly, I question whether or not building Armor against Darius worked in the first place and Xerath will basically kill whoever he wants once every 60 seconds.

Quote:
So what are your goals for early game laning in regard to Armor vs. Ar.Pen? Is early Ar.Pen not intended to be the counter to early game Armor Stacking?

If not, what options do characters like Talon and Riven have in lane vs. Early Armor Stackers?
Flat Penetration can't counter early game armor stacking. In fact, Flat Penetration currently *loses* to early armor stacking. Chain Vest > All the Penetration you can buy ever.

Quote:
Just pay attention to what you are doing and make sure you don't give someone wukong-esque armor shred and aoe potential ( who has the slipperness to pull it off) AND percentage health damage. In other words, wukong isn't a problem because if he is built this way he obviously caters his damage to a specific kind of target.
Physical % Max Health damage characters won't be any more abusive than if they had just gotten a Last Whisper. And if they have both - well, they're paying for it in other ways - such as having lower AD than a full IE or BT build for example.


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Irie Vibrator

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrmCkr View Post
flat armour pen + lw on a ad caster assassin like lee sin and splat goes the 3k health target even with 200+ armour derp derp

wait i already do that in current game states, with current Armour pen % pen reordering it will be even easier.

however since the armour pen values are/will obviously being reduced to compensate for the ~10+% increased damage with current values with reordering

so honestly what is the exact new order as i have asked twice already.
1. % reduction
2. Flat reduction
3. % penetration
4. Flat penetration

I'm assuming this will be the order, since it's the current order, with flat and % switched. Which is what Xypherous already said, so...