Preseason Itemization Preview

First Riot Post
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Scrulox

Senior Member

11-07-2012

@Xypherous

Could you please give us some details about the new itemization for jungling? Are there any new starter item like something other than cloth armor and boot?


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BlargCow

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Based on how it's coded, probably not at the moment - if I think about it. Tiamat has always had kind of odd interactions with stuff like this for a long time.

I'll make a note to look into that specific code interaction as Tiamat is weeird. Did you know Tiamat can splash magic damage *if* the autoattack is 100% magic? Tiamat is weeeird.
Tiamat Twisted Fate 1-shots entire enemy team with red card??????


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Based on how it's coded, probably not at the moment - if I think about it. Tiamat has always had kind of odd interactions with stuff like this for a long time.

I'll make a note to look into that specific code interaction as Tiamat is weeird. Did you know Tiamat can splash magic damage *if* the autoattack is 100% magic? Tiamat is weeeird.
I never thought of building Tiamat on Poppy.


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winghawk

Junior Member

11-07-2012

u could have released this message with the patch and season 3 in place of making us wait so much and while releasing this patch u could release Zed with it


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MarineRevenge

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Xypherous can we please get a quick preview of the melee AD carry items (talking trynd/yi/fiora)?


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spicykimchee

Recruiter

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Based on how it's coded, probably not at the moment - if I think about it. Tiamat has always had kind of odd interactions with stuff like this for a long time.

I'll make a note to look into that specific code interaction as Tiamat is weeird. Did you know Tiamat can splash magic damage *if* the autoattack is 100% magic? Tiamat is weeeird.
Thanks for the reply!


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Skaarrjj

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Based on how it's coded, probably not at the moment - if I think about it. Tiamat has always had kind of odd interactions with stuff like this for a long time.

I'll make a note to look into that specific code interaction as Tiamat is weeird. Did you know Tiamat can splash magic damage *if* the autoattack is 100% magic? Tiamat is weeeird.

I don't think Tiamat will appreciate you're calling him wierd! :O

But seriously, thanks for helping out AD Casters, this seems awesome. I do have one question though. How exactly is Force of Nature getting redistributed. I built it as Kha'zik last game and did outstanding with him, and now that it's going to go bye bye, I need to know where I should go to get my Magic Resistance and raw survivability, as well as movement speed increases.


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Oznap

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Will Darius be getting some armor pen nerfs because of the new itemization and new armor pen system. Similar to Galio when the new Ap Chalice was made?


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LunarNall

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Today Iím going to talk about Armor Penetration and its effects on the scaling of our Attack Damage Casters class.

Letís take a look at one of the core items for this class Ė The Brutalizer:



The Brutalizer has long been the trifecta of Attack Damage, Armor Penetration and Cooldown Reduction that these characters lean on for early game dominance. However, Flat Armor Penetration as a statistic overall has been pretty overpowered in compensation for the fact that items with the stat donít typically scale at all into the late game. This turns these characters into early-game gambit characters, out to dominate the early game as quickly as possible before they become irrelevant.

To adjust for this, weíre making two major changes:

1. Flat Armor Penetration and % Armor Penetration values are generally being lowered, but now Flat Penetration is calculated AFTER % Penetration

For example: Letís say I have 50% Armor Penetration and 20 Flat Armor Penetration versus a target with 120 Armor.

Currently, on Live, I would ignore 20 of his armor via Flat Penetration (100) and then 50% of the remainder, leaving him with 50 Armor.

After this change, I would ignore 50% of his armor (60) and then 20 of the remainder, leaving him with 40 armor.

In this manner, we can make sure that penetration values can be cost-effective for both late game and early game because now you have an option to synergize the two statistics together if you need to pierce large amounts of armor.

2. Brutalizer builds into more than one thing



Letís dig down into this item a little more. First off, the Black Cleaver now triggers off all physical damage. This means that spells and abilities can trigger the passive. In fact, letís look at a couple of our AD casters and see how this item works differently on them:


[aws2=news/Champ_Splashes/Pantheon_Splash.jpg]news/Champ_Splashes/Pantheon_Splash_thumb.jpg[/aws2]

Pantheon, the Artisan of War

Spear Shot: Will trigger Black Cleaver once on a single target.
Aegis of Zeonia: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.
Heartseeker Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver three times in a cone, as it does physical damage to the target three times.
Grand Skyfall: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.


[aws2=news/Champ_Splashes/Garen_Splash.jpg]news/Champ_Splashes/Garen_Splash_thumb.jpg[/aws2]

Garen, the Might of Demacia

Decisive Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver once, on a single target.
Courage: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does no damage.
Judgment: Will trigger Black Cleaver up to 6 times, in a circle around him, as it does physical damage 6 times.
Demacian Justice: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magical damage.

So now, AD casters attempting to deal with highly armored opponents have a way to partially nullify the armor of targets they choose to fully commit to with all of their skills. However, they make a trade-off here; while Black Cleaver is highly effective at negating the effect of enemy armor, the Cleaver itself does not provide all that much Attack Damage as a whole. So your skills will be slightly less effective on targets with high health and low armor, simply because theyíll be doing less overall damage. Black Cleaver is incredibly effective at shredding targets with lots of armor, but doesnít really do well trying to kill a mage with Rod of Ages, for example.

What about Last Whisper? How does this work with Last Whisper?

Last Whisper grants you % Armor Penetration while Black Cleaver reduces the opponentís armor.

Letís look at an enemy with 400 Armor. Black Cleaver will reduce their armor by 25%, leaving them with 300. Last Whisper will allow you to ignore 40% of the remaining 300 armor, which means their effective armor against you will now be 180.

Last Thoughts

We hope that this change helps create a smoother scaling curve for many of our AD casters without causing them to utterly dominate and kill everyone. While these changes allow them to ignore armor much more effectively, the characters in question will be making heavy tradeoffs by simply not dealing as much raw damage as they could have with a B.F. Sword build against soft targets. Additionally, these iterations of The Brutalizer and The Black Cleaver allow our more spell-focused ranged carries like Corki or Graves to have a viable alternative to Last Whisper that will give them great utility if they find themselves on a team with lot of physical damage characters.

Thanks for reading and stay tuned for more!

-Xypherous

Sweet!, can't wait to try out renekton again


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Critkeeper

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Buckshot does indeed fire 3 bullets that can proc Black Cleaver 3 times. Graves is an AD Caster.

The trade-off here is whether Last Whisper or Black Cleaver makes more sense for you and your team. Black Cleaver promises early lane dominance into team shred, while Last Whisper is a mid-late game selfish armor penetration.



In general, we're trying to introduce more actives that can be used either out of combat, or pre-combat and then adding some actives with lower cooldowns - so that people can get used to actives in their rotation.

However, we still don't want active overload, where the majority of your items are actives. That's actually been something that's been interestingly messy to combat. :P


Uh oh...
Wukong.

47.5% armor reduction by chaining full stacks black cleaver with crushing blow against a single target.
25% armor shred in aoe through cyclone.

How to win as wukong? Just rune and mastery for as much flat armor penetration as you possibly can, and get Black cleaver after picking up an armor pen item. 140 armor bruiser giving your team problems? NOPE. SUFFER ALL TEH DAMAGES