Barrier destroys gameplay, here's why.

First Riot Post
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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Heal is really bad. Barrier is busted in half.


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Deejilator

Member

11-06-2012

Riven is smiling right now. As her I already have a 1 to 1 AD shield put a Barrier on top of that and have fun having a tanky bruiser in your face that can take like 700 dmg before you even touch her health.

Joking aside though I'm really hesitant to embrace this change, and I actually love playing Riven. I know they are going to tweak the numbers so I'm willing to wait and see but I am just a little skeptical about this working. It's going to make early tower dives a lot more viable, especially on people that don't take barrier to counter it, because honestly early that would be the only counter to a barrier tower dive, anther barrier. I feel like it's just going to cause lanes to snowball harder especially top lane which many Rioters have commented is already a massive twenty ton snowball rolling down a 80 degree slope.


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atlas304

Senior Member

11-06-2012

well proving grounds barrier is 125-550 (lvl 1-18).

summoners rifts is gonna be toned down.

locket of the iron solari is currently 60-240 for your team (on a minute cool down).

barrier as a personal shield, will not be amazing and will be on a long cool down.


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TheSlappySlap

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

We don't want a heal/barrier summoner spell in the first place. Yes, the new modified heal to "save your friends" is a neat idea for supports but I thought the whole idea to change heal was to REMOVE "oh... low in health or about to take burst... here's some health for ya".

Barrier is stupid even if it's modified from it's CLEARLY OP stats in Proving Grounds. Just be more creative and think of something new for an AGGRESSIVE bottom lane. More debuff spells like Exhaust would make 1v1s and 2v2s and teamfights much more interesting than a spell like Barrier.


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MrGreenfield

Member

11-06-2012

the only thing that makes barrier broken is its low coolown


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ThaddeusMike

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good post!

1) No, but don't look at the current values - we've changed them specifically for SR. Additionally, Ignite being used means heal can't be - it simply counters it. Hard counters at champ select are largely undesirable.

2) Assassins are also getting a ton of help in the new items for Season 3. Remember that current "what works" isn't necessarily valid for S3.

3) By turning Heal into more a "save your friends" skill, Barrier is the selfish version of it - filling the role heal used to fill. It's meant to deal with spikes and save your life in some situations.

I fail to see why barrier won't just be a hard counter to assassins/karthus. Unless assassins will be able to hard burst people through barrier in which case we might have a another problem.


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Kum Get Sum Dik

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Recruiter

11-06-2012

guys guys guys. you have little faith in riot. If barrier is indeed as OP as everyone is saying its going to be just bring it like everyone else. As of now ignite/exhaust/flash are the 3 most common spells brought to a match, the reason is simple. They are the best out right now. If barrier is indeed OP just bring it. Same with champion bans. Blitzcrank, Shen, Alistar, ect. They are always banned because they are OP. Less QQ and more PEW PEW.


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I only eat rice

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Barrier seems like it's probably gonna screw most ap mids over pretty bad :/. I mean sure cass, and ryze probably couldn't care less about that measly barrier since they'll just keep spamming skills over and over but people like leblanc, xerath, annie and other champs of the sort are going to feel the wrath of barrier pretty hard. I mean it'd be kinda similar to giving everyone a fully charged morde shield and we all know how annoying it is to watch half your burst go into that shield.


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CloudedInSanity

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Thank you for replying Morello. I think a lot of our concern stems from not knowing the exact numbers of the ability, and from that we just assume it will be the same. It is reassuring to know that it will not be OP like it is in Proving Grounds.

One I guess, statement I hope you guys don't over nerf flash, while I understand why you don't like it, it does add for some interesting game play and fast decision making at the same time.

I hope overall that the changes to summoner spells creates more diversity, as I know this is what you have been trying to do for a long time now.

I look forward for what is to come.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paprikachu View Post
Hello GD.

I'm pretty sure everyone reading this has at least tried ARAM once. Almost everyone takes either Barrier, Heal, or both. This destroys gameplay, and here's why:

1) Barrier can only be used defensively. You only use this spell, when it's already too late. It has no other use than saving your ass.
2) It punishes good play. Imagine someone trying to kill you with a flash+ignite or some spell. You use Barrier to escape. That guy has two spells on cooldown and no escape for a long time, for nothing.
3) It rewards bad play. Wrong positioning? Just use Barrier to get out for free.
4) It is crazy OP. It's basically +25% HP for free.
5) Unlike Heal, there is no counter to it.
6) Its strengh is even more multiplied with the amount of armor and magic resist a player has.

Flash does not suffer from any of these problems. It does not give you stats, it can be used offensively and it only buys you a small amount of time, you can still be outrun by champs with higher movement speed.

tl;dr: Remove Barrier, or nerf it at least. It makes the game boring and extremely frustrating.
1. is true (about using it when it is nearly too late; it can be used and gets used offensively in ARAM all the time; how do you kill when you are dead?). But heal does the same. You use flash when you are certain to get a kill, or when you have no other escape and you would die. That's what SS are for. You use them when you see no other way to achieve something.
2. Flash + ignite when you know the enemy has barrier? And you flash only to get in rage for one ignite? If not, the enemy will probably need one flash, too, and used 2 SS just like you did.
3. Every skill rewards bad play. A champ without skills needs to be played with an enormous amount of skill to do something. Flash, Ghost, Heal, ignite, ... all they make up for bad play. Escapes, MS boosts, shen's shield and ult, all shields and defensive boosts. even high dmg skills or dots. High range skills. All they do one thing, give your champ a chance to do something. Barrier is no different. It gives you a chance to survive tower dives (like heal) and to bait. It gives you a chance to get in aggressive and outplay the enemy when you are low. What do you sacrifice for that? another SS that could be better in a lot of situations.

4. I'm not sure if you are serious, but do you really believe Riot implements that skill 1:1 from ARAM?

5. There is no counter to a shield? I would call that counters dmg and timing. A shield is a normal temporary increase of HP. Nothing you really need to counter hard with a skill. Or is shen, riven, janna, karma and others so OP cause they can shield?
6. True, but so is HP, heal and other shields. There is nothing special about it.


So in the end your arguments are:
Ignite is bad, cause it counters heal completely and makes up for bad play (or counters good play from the enemy if you want to call it that way around) cause you can kill someone you wouldn't have killed.
The enemy may use Flash + heal and you still kill him with one ignite.
Ignite ignores Armor and MR
Ignite gets only used to win games (offensive of defensive is not important. What is important is who you win the game and all SS help you do that).

I used some of your arguments to say that ignite is a bad SS (in terms of design) and i could do that with all SS. I could even do it with all skills in the game, cause there is always a way to use words and make things bad.