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thornmail, and why is really sucks

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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

Senior Member

11-07-2012

This worries me slightly, once an ADC gets fed it's GG most times anyway, now the one best counter to most ADC's is going away.

Granted, it was a niche item but wouldn't that be because ADC's were also very niche on this map, and it's an ADC counter...?


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Aquilux

Senior Member

11-08-2012

I wonder what else will get thrown out for "poor item design."


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netkitten

Senior Member

11-09-2012

i didn't get this thornmail fuss, it was considered to be underpowered for ages and was used mostly by new players (vs yi :3), everyone was suggested to buy fh instead, and suddenly it's extremely op on tt (while fh is fine) and they even say that it is "the bane of all ad champs, late game it is nearly impossible to counter an opponent with thorn mail without a gank", including summoner's rift where it, as they say, is countered only because "a support and an ap caster help you and neutralize whoever has it." -_-


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Taiyodori

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Hoizengerd:
now they removed Force of Nature too!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
Riot just wants to completely kill off tanks from the game, there better be some carry nerfs incoming cause they're gonna melt entire teams now (as if they didn't hit hard enough already) and sounds like Frozen Heart and Randuins are in the scope sights too


Yes, they're removing FoN, but Xypherous also said, they're going to split its parts onto other items. I'm completely fine with this.
Tbh, FoN was always a great item as a whole. You might always want the item, but you didn't want to build it. Its passive scales with maxHP, so it's rather a lategame item. Therefore you build it as a 2nd or 3rd tank item.
Problem with this was, it's just unacceptable to build just a negatron and then wait for another 1870g as a tank (you don't want 1-2 regrowth pendands in your inventory late game).

You know how awkward it is for offensive champions to get B.F. Swords / Needlessly large rods, right? Getting back to base with 1400g and not being able to spend it on anything, cause well, you need that BF Sword/NLR.
FoN even breaks this gold-cap by another 200g and does so late game. Especially as a tank, where you're expected to leave each minion/monster to your AP/AD carry.


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Vinyl Skratch

Member

11-09-2012

This entire thread is just a juxtaposition of bias and stupidity. Thornmail has always been a way of keeping certain champions in check when they get too ridiculous and granted the cost of 2000 gold is rather small for such a great item, you should just increase the gold cost.

What people don't understand about thornmail it seems is that it's magic damage, build a Maw and it's usually fine, especially for ADCs, everytime someone has built a thornmail against me as Jax, Fiora, Trynd or a few others, I've always just dumped 740 gold into a Negatron Cloak and it was pretty fine for me, had no issues and a majority of the League community we've already seen is incapable of having the common sense of realizing that they need to deviate from builds, I guarantee a large majority of the people complaining about thornmail are the kids that pull up a solomid.net champion guide and read the build and follow it like their Bible.

And the reasoning is stupid, once late game rolls around an ADC is impossible to 1v1 unless you are a tank, have a thornmail, are playing a champion who has 100-0 on demand burst or are facing someone that has no idea how to keep range. So you're throwing away a counter to that, pretty soon after this change if it goes through, you're going to complain about the ridiculousness of damage dealers late game.

TL;DR - The only people who seem to have an issue with thornmail are the people too stupid to build MR or the people who are too lazy to farm up 740 gold for the necessary MR. Once you remove it, you'll see a good amount of complaining about how ridiculous damage dealers are and you have no great counter choices.


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Vinyl Skratch

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Nostradamusss:
thornmail is very strong and punish people that can't adapt and have the same itembuild everygame (ie, phantom dancer, bt etc), but it's hard countered by madred and onhit build. since there is no madred in tt, it's hard to counter thornmail. in SR i have totally no problem to counter thornmail even in 1vs1 scenario, i just sell some physical dps item and buy wits end+madred.

but removing/adding item to tt and dominion to try to balance the map is really idiotic.

it's a burden of knowedge. Riot now can't create new map, because it's impossible for people to remember which item is on specific map.
Also some hero are very very weak in 3vs3 or on short map, soraka or nasus really make me lol on 3vs3 map. and some are completly op because their kit is early game oriented like mundo with his 200AD steroid -.-

I think riot is doing a really bad move here for the long term, just my opinion btw.


Blade of the Ruined King is your new MBR. Builds from a Bilgewater Cutlass.


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Cedarbridge

Recruiter

11-09-2012

Quote:
DragonEpico:
1. One of the few factors that counters the huge snowballing problem in TT
2. Same as above
3. Makes AP and magic damage have a viable role as it makes 3 bruiser teams unviable



Games being shorter than the average 5v5 through snowballing is a "problem" now?


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SheriffV2

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I thought this thread was about Thornmail sucking because it's bad, not because it's good. o_0

Thornmail is completely useless. Thornmail never works as intended. Against a Yi, Trynd, Sion, with only the life steal from a Vamp Scepter, it doesn't outdamage the healing done from their life steal...

Against a fed AD with LS, Thornmail is like wet toilet paper being used as a shield.

Warden's Mail+Executioner's Calling/ThatNewItem, are a better counter than Thornmail.

The only reason to ever bother getting Thornmail, is for the cheap 100 armor. <_<


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jpn203

Junior Member

11-09-2012

thornmail is not that hard to counter if you get a wits end it makes thornmial do very little damage. and without thornmail i was playing on the beta and ad characters like fiora and darius are too overpowered. without thornmail there really isnt any stopping strong ad charcters if your going to get rid of thornmail at least replace it with an item similar to it that will help those ad characters not overrun the field. fiora could 1v3 our team cuz we couldnt get thornmail to stop her and we got dominated. or if you dont wanna make something similar to it just reduce the damage to 20% or mayybe even 15% but dont get rid of it period cuz ad characters r now way too overpowered


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netkitten

Senior Member

11-09-2012

>fiora could 1v3 our team cuz we couldnt get thornmail to stop her

i bet it wasn't the reason

also fiora isn't an ad caster, she is a melee carry