Normal games are kind of dangerous now if you're an unskilled/new player..

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Crosbie

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Wow. Some of those are touch & go, because whilst being berrated - they still are breaking the summoners code by retaliation (I've been warned for this myself.) However, case #2 .... Holy... What the flump? The guy literally politely replies to masses of abuse in each report and genuinely seemed like he is just struggling with the games, and he got banned?

The tribunal really is a joke...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kojiro Sasaki

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phykos View Post
You realize that these few cases in no way invalidate the entire system right? It's easy to say obvious stuff will happen. People are flawed, mistakes aren't unlikely or shocking. Doesn't mean that all cases are faulty. Jesus, talk about a fallacy.
"I'd rather see a hundred guilty men go free then see one innocent man convicted" Famous quote.

Also, "few cases" Who exactly is to say it can't happen with even more, then? We have proof right here that it will. Its an automated system. It is not self-correcting.

Not to mention that I guarantee you that there are people that go on and just hit guilty in hopes that they'll get free IP. Those people may not be the majority, but those people PLUS the people who actually think they should be punished will often outweigh the proper majority of people who have actually read it, and think they are innocent.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iDerp Solo

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Mob rule bad? Why I never!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phykos

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornchowdar View Post
So what guarantee do people have who have spent money that they won't be the victims of the system?

Since bans are automated it is entirely possible that somebody becomes a victim of the tribunal, forfeiting whatever they have spent on their account.
It's possible but statistically it doesn't happen often enough reasonably fear it. It's the same reason we don't worry about an asteroid crashing into Earth and killing us all. Sure, it is entirely possible and has happened before, but it's still a slim chance and there's no practical reason to worry about it, because if it happens it happens. Thing is is there's always an unlikely event that can destroy the best made plans. The world isn't perfect. Doesn't mean we should take a largely good system, that has been shown to work more often than not, and toss it.

That said, we shouldn't ignore the flaws, but you guys are claiming the whole system is bunk because of 5+ cases........when there are millions of players. I can't continue a discussion with you if you aren't willing to accept that that isn't anywhere near a large enough issue to scrap the tribunal.

It needs work, I'll agree, but it's ridiculous to think you or I should actively fear the tribunal given that it has been shown time and time again to be exceedingly rare for any innocent player to get banned.

I've seen it happen once on these forums, and Riot owned up to it and undid their mistake, and awarded the guy to make up for it. So forgive me if I don't hide under a rock over nothing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

cornchowdar

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phykos View Post
It's possible but statistically it doesn't happen often enough reasonably fear it. It's the same reason we don't worry about an asteroid crashing into Earth and killing us all. Sure, it is entirely possible and has happened before, but it's still a slim chance and there's no practical reason to worry about it. If it happens it happens. The world isn't perfect. Doesn't mean we should take a largely good system, that has been shown to work more often than not, and toss it.

That said, we shouldn't ignore the flaws, but you guys are claiming the whole system is bunk because of 5+ cases........when there are millions of players. I can't continue a discussion with you if you aren't willing to accept that that isn't anywhere near a large enough issue to scrap the tribunal.

It needs work, I'll agree, but it's ridiculous to think you or I should actively fear the tribunal given that it has been shown time and time again to be exceedingly rare for any innocent player to get banned.

I've seen it happen once on these forums, and Riot owned up to it and undid their mistake, and awarded the guy to make up for it. So forgive me if I don't hide under a rock over nothing.

I will forgive you, but I won't forgive Riot.

It isn't hard to get a statistically significant sample; the problem is the lack of access and Riots unwillingness to disclose these vital stats. If you understand statistics to any degree, you realize that sample in practice is never a significant proportion of the total population size.

If you want to be technical, we would somehow have to get a reasonable (say N >= 50) cases independently selected to really do any significant statistical inference.

This is a game with millions of players. Even if this were only a fraction of a percent it would amount to thousands who could potentially fall victim to the automated system.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phykos

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanzu View Post
"I'd rather see a hundred guilty men go free then see one innocent man convicted" Famous quote.

Also, "few cases" Who exactly is to say it can't happen with even more, then? We have proof right here that it will. Its an automated system. It is not self-correcting.

Not to mention that I guarantee you that there are people that go on and just hit guilty in hopes that they'll get free IP. Those people may not be the majority, but those people PLUS the people who actually think they should be punished will often outweigh the proper majority of people who have actually read it, and think they are innocent.
Quotes prove nothing, especially when the quote is an opinion. Also, this is a game. It is not anywhere near the same stakes as the quote you made, so that changes things a bit too. Being a bit dramatic aren't we?

Look, you're effectively saying that "my lack of proof of tons of cases proves that there are tons of cases!". I'm sure there are more, there has to be when we're talking 12, million players. Still, more often than not, the bad guys get banned and the good don't. So again, are you proposing another, superior method? If not then you're not helping, you're just shouting. I'd wager most people get the idea that things aren't perfect, so you're not even pointing out an unknown flaw.

Also, care to provide any sort of evidence for the bolded part? That's quite the statement to make.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Razy6trix

Member

11-06-2012

up


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TrolImanship

Senior Member

11-06-2012

LOL I said a year ago the Tribunal was ruining this game

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1745586

A year.

I guess nothing is going to change.



I am strongly considering quitting. I feel like the all those Riot members who try to be nice and personable on the forums have betrayed me. Innocent people are being banned here and Riot won't say a word about it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phykos

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornchowdar View Post
I will forgive you, but I won't forgive Riot.

It isn't hard to get a statistically significant sample; the problem is the lack of access and Riots unwillingness to disclose these vital stats. If you understand statistics to any degree, you realize that sample in practice is never a significant proportion of the total population size.

If you want to be technical, we would somehow have to get a reasonable (say N >= 50) cases independently selected to really do any significant statistical inference.

This is a game with millions of players. Even if this were only a fraction of a percent it would amount to thousands who could potentially fall victim to the automated system.
Really? Did I dispute this? Where did I say I didn't get this? When given the choice between millions and thousands, can you provide any good sense as to why you would choose the thousands, over the millions? I acknowledged it's flawed, like everything else, and that undoubtedly people who don't deserve it get banned. However, we are talking about temporary bans here (I've never once seen or heard of a permanent ban on a totally innocent player), so this is hardly a cause to go to bat for.

What's worse is you even used "potentially". There's too much uncertainty on the side of "the tribunal is evil" for me to take that. This isn't a matter of life and death people. If 1000 innocent players get banned temporarily, while a million bad players get banned permanently, you're damn right I'll keep the system the way it is.

Seriously, do you guys realize we're talking about a game here and not our actual country's court system?

And if you "want to be technical" saying that you could provide the proof but don't, undermines your cause. Do it if you can, then get back to me.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NadalKenlyl

Senior Member

11-06-2012

I think mandatory comments on why the person is being reported is an excellent idea. If you don't care enough to write out a couple sentences why then you shouldn't be reporting anyone.