I do like the new TT but... (Altars)

First Riot Post
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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-06-2012
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinDelMarr View Post
I wonder what people think of if after Altars became unlocked, they went back to being neutral instantly, so a team that captures both can't indefinitely seige after capping both. Would add more pressure around the altars and give teams a choice of capping a point for sustained advantage, or continuing a tower seige
Puts a lot more focus on the altars... more than I'd like there to be. To do this, we'd have to increase the lock time, which also increases snowball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOP10 ELO View Post
making it less favorable to bruisers will also make them less favorable to all other champions
No--not equally at least. For example, a previous iteration of the altar buff was 10% bonus damage. We changed that to %AD/AP, because that's less beneficial to bruisers.


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Th3 Herbalist

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Puts a lot more focus on the altars... more than I'd like there to be. To do this, we'd have to increase the lock time, which also increases snowball.


No--not equally at least. For example, a previous iteration of the altar buff was 10% bonus damage. We changed that to %AD/AP, because that's less beneficial to bruisers.

How about something like 10% to each or 25% of bonus, taking whichever amount was greater?

..Nevermind, that might be a bit ridiculous, but you see what I'm saying. That was bruisers would still get the full effect, but non-bruisers would get a more beneficial effect from it. Maybe not exactly those numbers, but the idea in itself?


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
*Quote about global nerf vs bruiser nerf for shrine*

No--not equally at least. For example, a previous iteration of the altar buff was 10% bonus damage. We changed that to %AD/AP, because that's less beneficial to bruisers.
Yeah... and AP casters thanks you for it... it's not like they are based on base damage until very late game...


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WillWW

Senior Member

11-06-2012

% damage increase based on the amount of health and defense you have. The more hp/def you have, the less damage increase. And the less hp/def, the more the % is. Voila! Gg bruisers.


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Robc

Senior Member

11-06-2012

This isn't a direct altar issue, but it does play into focus on altars to an extent. One of the things I've found to be "off" with the way games flow in treeline is the respawn timers. They are EXTREMELY short in the earlygame to the point where someone who died in an early fight could potentially rejoin the fight before it ends, and they remain very short throughout the bulk of the game, and then as players hit the 14-18 range they become incredibly long.

The reason this is a problem is in general, even if you ace the other team, until somewhere after level 9 or 10 it is essentially impossible to take map objectives (except you guessed it, the altars), and its almost never worth the risk to try to vilemaw or take a tower because the enemy team will be back up and ready to contest you (and you probably aren't in great fighting condition after winning the last fight). So the first half of the game essentially becomes win fight=take altars and shove lanes and back.

On the other side, once players get into the 14-18 range of levels, the respawn timers become HUGE for how small the map is, and an ace at this point in the game can easily be a rush through 2 towers+inhib or even a GG rush to the nexus, even if the team that got aced was ahead by quite a bit.

These things in and of themselves aren't really a problem, but when you throw it all together, the game strategy that will usually win it for you is win fights at altars and control them early, and do nothing other than that because the other objectives (towers/vilemaw) arent worth the risk, and can easily be rolled over later. Then, just farm and keep control of the altars until the opponents level to the point where they are down 30+ seconds on death, win that fight and take everything. It just feels like the strategic alternative options just arent ever worth it. Controlling the altars is always high reward low risk, and everything else is the opposite.

Sneaking vilemaw or trying to push towers down early are options, but they really aren't very good ones ever currently, and it is kind of just a game of king of the hill where one team snowballs it, then waits for respawn timers and wins easily, or it remains close, and then whoever wins a fight (still over altars) goes from no towers down to a nexus rush.

Anyway sorry for rambling, TL;DR= I think the respawn timers should be adjusted due to the size of the map (longer early-shorter late) because right now the timers limit strategic options too much.


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exe3

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

I wish the altars gave you something more interesting than just some hidden stats (Morello goes on and on about hidden stats are powerful but completely uninteresting so it's surprising to have them here).

What if capturing a point gave your team a powerful unit to fight in your lane (so the point is to capture the altar every 90secs rather than capture and try and hold)? I think there'd be more gameplay to that.


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Sir Jungleton

Senior Member

11-06-2012

2x Altar buff on a team thats already snowballing is OP.


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Renkairu

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Altars are getting a few "nerfs" in the upcoming 1.71 patch. After that, we'll be re-evaluating some systems level changes to both altars and speed shrines that should make them less favorable to bruisers.
Woot! My first Red reply! thanks so much! =D

But yes, when you do mention nerfs, I know we'll have to wait and see what you are actually changing about them. But are these inherently nerfs just to make them less beneficial to bruisers, or are they being reworked in a general sense to be more beneficial overall to any player? Mayhaps more passively boosting, rather than a direct source of damage?

I also read that you also agree in trying to take away some emphasis on the altars. Are we trying to put more emphasis on a certain other phase in TT, say laning or ganking?


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Blurry420

Senior Member

11-06-2012

I don't like the altars and wish they were gone but TT will never be my main map so its w/e. However, I do think the altars should wait until like lvl 3'ish to unlock so maybe those silly level 1 fights can be avoided. I don't think good teams should be almost forced into taking a strong disadvantage or picking champs that are strong at level 1.


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