@ RIOT why do champion reworks take longer than making a new champ?

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Fapotu

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
I would love to do some 3d art spotlights. That is a great idea and we should do it.
Please! I would love to see some of those, wireframe renders, high poly turntables, man that'd be sick


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Axzarious

Senior Member

11-14-2012

I think you guys need to focus on revamping the models of a bunch of older characters at least, if you must do anything for the revamp. Sivir, Taric, Eve and many others still need some love. Heck, I think Renekton needs a major update to resemble his currently awesome new in game art.

I also want to ask this - Whats the priority of the older champs in need of a rework? What are the top 3? Or maybe 5 most likely to recieve an overhaul next? (Or perhaps just the ones you guys at Riot want to see have a visual overhaul personally?)


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Jimyd

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by morello View Post
speaking from the gameplay side, reworks are harder than new champions - likely the champion being reworked has a fundamental flaw that needs to be fixed, but fixing that flaw has a 99% chance of making current fans upset - being broken does help things be more fun a lot of times

there's a lot of design work that goes into trying to fix a champion, but still make it fun to people who liked it originally, or making it better in a way that makes sense in some other direction. Many champions who still need this have a bit of this going on (irelia, soraka, poppy). I think to get a rework done right, it can take double the time of making a new champion from a development and playtesting standpoint - depending on the level of design changes needed (eve is notoriously long, katarina and xin were a lot faster. Heimerdinger and karma are tougher.

Hope this sheds some light on the issue - meeting current expectations, while fixing problems and providing creative solutions, is actually one of the hardest things i think a content designer can take on.
COUGH, not Sejuani, COUGH.


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Terian

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Speaking from the gameplay side, reworks are harder than new champions - likely the champion being reworked has a fundamental flaw that needs to be fixed, but fixing that flaw has a 99% chance of making current fans upset - being broken does help things be more fun a lot of times

There's a lot of design work that goes into trying to fix a champion, but still make it fun to people who liked it originally, or making it better in a way that makes sense in some other direction. Many champions who still need this have a bit of this going on (Irelia, Soraka, Poppy). I think to get a rework done right, it can take double the time of making a new champion from a development and playtesting standpoint - depending on the level of design changes needed (Eve is notoriously long, Katarina and Xin were a lot faster. Heimerdinger and Karma are tougher.

Hope this sheds some light on the issue - meeting current expectations, while fixing problems and providing creative solutions, is actually one of the hardest things I think a content designer can take on.
Yeah I'm not gonna lie Morello. Eve has been my favorite champ ever since she had her stun. We waited what, a year and a half for that rework? When a couple weeks later you guys were all "Hey guess what here is your Kat rework!" I was a little pissed haha. Wait so long for an Eve rework and here comes a Kat rework outta nowhere. It's all good though. BTW, any chance of a new Eve skin anytime soon?


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Albireo

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey
Great Question. We here at Riot games use Max or maya. I myself usually start out in zbrush and sculpt away, then retopologize for a lower poly in game model, then bake the Ambient occlusion from the high to the low to get a good base for the color texture. I would love to do some 3d art spotlights. That is a great idea and we should do it.
Thaks for answer my question, time to try it myself, i always make a base model mesh and then export it to sculpt it, but i think i need to upgrade myself a little bit then.

3d art spotlight ! 3d art spotlight! Go


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Silverwinds

Senior Member

11-14-2012

@Grumpy Monkey

What do you think of Malzahar's current 3D models? He's one of my favortie champs but I feel like he could use and upgrade, But what's your opinion~?

-SJ


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Diablo48

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Speaking from the gameplay side, reworks are harder than new champions - likely the champion being reworked has a fundamental flaw that needs to be fixed, but fixing that flaw has a 99% chance of making current fans upset - being broken does help things be more fun a lot of times

There's a lot of design work that goes into trying to fix a champion, but still make it fun to people who liked it originally, or making it better in a way that makes sense in some other direction. Many champions who still need this have a bit of this going on (Irelia, Soraka, Poppy). I think to get a rework done right, it can take double the time of making a new champion from a development and playtesting standpoint - depending on the level of design changes needed (Eve is notoriously long, Katarina and Xin were a lot faster. Heimerdinger and Karma are tougher.

Hope this sheds some light on the issue - meeting current expectations, while fixing problems and providing creative solutions, is actually one of the hardest things I think a content designer can take on.
I was wondering if you have ever considered opening up your rework process to the community. It seems to me like that might be a good way to help you get over some of the concept design hurdles by having a massive pile of ideas to browse through for use or inspiration, and even if it fails to provide anything worthwhile it does not really cost you much time to lay out the problems and constraints.

Besides, we all know what they say about monkeys and typewriters. If you give us enough time something worthwhile should pop up.


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Rossan

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
There it is!

I think this might be a sensitive issue with scary trade secret type policy . I can tell you they are fairly low polycount, but i can't give you a hard number.
how about more than 1000 less than 10k
Haha, fair enough. I was just curious as i am currently working on my own pipeline of creating a champion from scratch for school. We are using 3ds Max and Cinema 4d.

I do agree with you though that the fundamentals are whats important and then from there you can learn any software with just some time and hard work.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

11-23-2012

I've got a question for Grumpy Monkey: why are triangles sort important? I do a little 3d modelling of my own (for poser) and while I do use tris where needed, quads work just fine too.


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LordRandomness

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Reworking a champion to a sufficient degree is basically like making a new champion, but with extremely tight restrictions (must play like old champion but not cause the problems old champion did). This can understandably cause delays.