The problem with bruisers in TT

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chaser676

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
myself, sam, and 1onz have been running Karma+Mundo+Darius/Olaf. We basically bring 1 high damage bruiser, one damage soaking tank, and one powerful AP. So far with this comp we are 12/0 and about 1759 on that team.
wooooosssshhhh


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bryllyg

Junior Member

11-03-2012

I think this is a good point. Bruisers in the new TT are king. Can you beat them? Yes. Good game play and skill will always beat a bruiser, but the map isn't balanced for different types of characters. My friends and I have agreed to have at least two bruisers per TT game we play. The result is an increase by about 25% in our wins. We aren't great bruiser players, but we don't have to be. The damage absorption and good output turns most of the team fights into wins. Personally, I like Nasus and Gangplank as good tanky bruisers with good dps, but darius and singed do quite well too.

I'd love to hear more about this topic! Good discussions will lead to a better final product for the new TT.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FDru

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryllyg View Post
I think this is a good point. Bruisers in the new TT are king. Can you beat them? Yes. Good game play and skill will always beat a bruiser, but the map isn't balanced for different types of characters. My friends and I have agreed to have at least two bruisers per TT game we play. The result is an increase by about 25% in our wins. We aren't great bruiser players, but we don't have to be. The damage absorption and good output turns most of the team fights into wins. Personally, I like Nasus and Gangplank as good tanky bruisers with good dps, but darius and singed do quite well too.

I'd love to hear more about this topic! Good discussions will lead to a better final product for the new TT.
Anytime I dare to pick Nasus in champ select I get flamed, trolled and raged at. So far, I've ended up switching to a different champ every time.

I think he could be a good jungler but nobody even thinks he's slightly good.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chaser676

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Anytime I dare to pick Nasus in champ select I get flamed, trolled and raged at. So far, I've ended up switching to a different champ every time.

I think he could be a good jungler but nobody even thinks he's slightly good.
Nasus is awful... he can't farm enough to do any damage. He'll be pure tank with only wither.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

67chrome

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalarepa View Post
High risk low reward vs low risk high reward.
That's mostly due to how attributes stack in League of Legends.

Assuming you deal 100 damage and have 1000 health, picking up 10 damage and 100 health increases your DPS by more than picking up 20 damage would, and your EHP by more than picking up 200 health would, just by the capacity to live longer to deal damage, and deal more damage from living longer.

You get multiplicative bonuses with things like AD, AS, A Pen, Life Steal, and Crit as well, or AP, CDR, Sepll Vamp, and M Pen, or Health, Armor/MR, and AS Slows. The main problem there is that DPS and EHP is flat out better in duels than either DPS or EHP. And if you build DPS one CC effect can be enough for 1 enemy to 100%->0% you, were if you go EHP one sustain (life steal or spell vamp) item can insure you'll never deal damage that sticks to win. So in summation, champions that scale well with bruiser builds will do better than any other champion in 1v1 and 2v2 situations, were rolls like Tanks and Carries that rely heavily on their team-mates to justify building either EHP or Survival will tend to falter.

I don't really see much hope for that problem to be fixed outside of drastic changes to itemization. Most bruisers are quite strong without many items as well, which makes item-reliant champions rather lackluster for early agression, which is quite common.

If there was an item with an active that say, added the Armor, Magic Resistance, and Current HP of the target and the user and then evenly distributed them between the target and the user (lets say for 3 seconds) it would make DPS builds more viable (as it would allow an edge with committed DPS itemization). Think that Pain Split ability Misdreavus has in Pokemon more or less, maybe with an HP shield that would convert 35% of the healing that would put you over 100% Max HP for good measure.

I'd say the opposite could be true for tanks with stealing DPS, but the only real difference between tanks and bruisers is itemization as all tanks are easily capable of being bruisers, and bruisers like Mundo, Olaf, and Malphite that already scale with defensive attributes would become even more prominent.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bagel Arms

Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67chrome View Post
I'd say the opposite could be true for tanks with stealing DPS, but the only real difference between tanks and bruisers is itemization as all tanks are easily capable of being bruisers, and bruisers like Mundo, Olaf, and Malphite that already scale with defensive attributes would become even more prominent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medaforcer View Post
That's two bruisers and an ap...
Damage tank, support tank. The way I see it, most tanks are a mix of the two, but there's usually a focus because no champion is a PURE tank. Heck, bruiser is just a damage/tanking combo.

Worlds like "bruiser" and "tank" are thrown around left and right with no clarification, thus frustrating the flow of conversation. Might I suggest we add more concise descriptors such as damage/damage-soaking/meat shield/crowd control/support/beefy to our descriptions in order to facilitate a more common understanding of the conversation?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Slan

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Nasus is eh.. terrible. GP is allright I suppose, but there are better bruiser-picks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AlmightyFork

Member

11-03-2012

Bruiser Hecarim. Gank faster than they can ping


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Winktoblink

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalarepa View Post
It's not like bruisers = autowin. You can beat them with great teamwork. However, if you don't pick bruiser team, then you are the one, who needs to make up good tactic, you are the one who needs proper positioning, you are the one who needs to play super carefuly during entire game.
Meanwhile, some Darius or Singed just midnlessly rolls his face over keyboard with 0 effort, 0 tactic, 0 positioning and... he wins most of the matches by doing that.

High risk low reward vs low risk high reward.
It's not just bruisers though. Lux is wonderful on this map. As a matter of fact I destroyed a Darius earlier today with her. It wasn't because I had to scheme up some great strategy or anything either, I just harassed him.

Like summoner's rift, champions counter other champions. Lux can wreck singed and Darius, but it kinda sucks when she gets blown up by an assassin. And then the assassin can't kill that darius because he has too much health. It's like a triangle between ranged, assassin, and tanky dps.

Also note, we're in beta and the "meta" is under-developed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

fiddlesticksssss

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesh View Post
myself, sam, and 1onz have been running Karma+Mundo+Darius/Olaf. We basically bring 1 high damage bruiser, one damage soaking tank, and one powerful AP. So far with this comp we are 12/0 and about 1759 on that team.
So nothing has changed then. Karma was always good on TT when played right, mundo was downright broken, and darius and olaf are still on god/darius tier.