Oh my, that new Blackfire Torch

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Taiyodori

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie B View Post
The difference is that Madreds costs 3800g while Blackfire Torch costs 2890g, and 1.5 Attack Speed would also require additional items beyond the Madreds. Also Madreds is considered OP on TT, otherwise it would be purchasable there :P


You have to compare it to the Blade of the Ruined King, which deals 4% of the target's CURRENT health, which averages to (approximately) 2% of their max health per attack over the course of a fight (assuming that your target spends half of the time above 50% hp and half of it below 50%), which - for 2825 gold - with no additional items, at Level 18, on an AD Carry (who each have approximately 1.0 attack speed at 18), is 2% health per second. Personally, I think that the Blade of the Ruined King is a little bit overpowered, but the new Torch is pretty close to it.
Not sure about Madred's "would be OP on TT"; could also just be to limit itemization for bruisers. If you think of it, no one other than a bruiser (besides maybe Kogmaw) purchases Madred's. And then again, reducing the power of bruisers was one of the goals for new TT.

A comparison with Blade of the ruined King is still somewhat lacking, considering the different roles of champions who buy BFT / Blade of the ruined King.
- BFT is clearly meant as a caster item. What do casters do? First of all: Burst damage (some deal sustained dmg as well, but burst is a big part). How does 5% bonus magical dmg help you? Well, not too much, especially if you play a caster that has a burst combo and a lot of cd afterwards. Also, you can't do anything to make the 5% bonus dmg scale, as soon as you proc is constantly. Or does anyone consider Brands passive dmg gamechanging in teamfights? Sure it's a good tool for harassing, but it doesn't decide teamfights.
- Blade of the ruined King on the other hand procs (like Madreds) on each autoattack. Therefore it scales with AS. Why would I make an assumption with a lvl 18 champion, who bought no item besides 1 blade of the ruined king? By making this assumption you completely neglect the fact that blade of the ruined king scales on AS, while BFT's passive scales on nothing, except enemy HP.

Well, talking about numbers only doesn't make sense anyways. We have to see how it works out ingame.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiyodori View Post
Not sure about Madred's "would be OP on TT"; could also just be to limit itemization for bruisers. If you think of it, no one other than a bruiser (besides maybe Kogmaw) purchases Madred's. And then again, reducing the power of bruisers was one of the goals for new TT.

A comparison with Blade of the ruined King is still somewhat lacking, considering the different roles of champions who buy BFT / Blade of the ruined King.
- BFT is clearly meant as a caster item. What do casters do? First of all: Burst damage (some deal sustained dmg as well, but burst is a big part). How does 5% bonus magical dmg help you? Well, not too much, especially if you play a caster that has a burst combo and a lot of cd afterwards. Also, you can't do anything to make the 5% bonus dmg scale, as soon as you proc is constantly. Or does anyone consider Brands passive dmg gamechanging in teamfights? Sure it's a good tool for harassing, but it doesn't decide teamfights.
- Blade of the ruined King on the other hand procs (like Madreds) on each autoattack. Therefore it scales with AS. Why would I make an assumption with a lvl 18 champion, who bought no item besides 1 blade of the ruined king? By making this assumption you completely neglect the fact that blade of the ruined king scales on AS, while BFT's passive scales on nothing, except enemy HP.

Well, talking about numbers only doesn't make sense anyways. We have to see how it works out ingame.
BFT is clearly not designed for caster buster. it's designed for magic dps mage. khartus, soraka, amumu, swain, fiddlestick, singed, cassiopiea. even good on mordekaiser. the passive alone increase morde ULTI damage by 21% max hp (1.66*13), it's just brokenly op.

Not to mention it's way easier to keep the dot to someone than keep attacking with aa someone that try to escape.

also BFT is not single target, but multi target. so you can get 1.66%dmg on multiple target.


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Medaforcer

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11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I'm actually quite afraid it'll be too strong on Singed and Amumu. The charge system was designed specifically so that it wouldn't last forever on champs like that. We'll see how it turns out; this is sort of the "foundation" for several iterations to come.
Why not just not make it work with DoT or toggles


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AlmightyFork

Member

11-03-2012

Can anyone answer me how exactly this item will work with Hecarim's Aura of Dread (W).

Edit: Just tested, I feel like AP hecarim is still worthless . I was hoping an item like this might make a hybrid possible, but it seems doubtable. Got it up to 700 damage over 4 seconds, nice, but not good. Full ap build too. Didnt feel like the item did much for his aura.