Blackfire Torch nerf/removal and Draft on Shadow Isle.

First Riot Post
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Curxis

Junior Member

11-02-2012

When you play Singed, you don't burst a persons health to 50% then the torch ticks 2.5% out of 50%, Singed's poison trail deals a flat amount per dot with the blackfire torch so for the most part you're at 100% health having 2.5% ticked away with the flat damage from the poison trail possibly causing you to be taking more damage from the torch than the poison trail but eventually the damage from the poison will overcome the torch as Singed's opponent healths dwindle rapidly.
Also if you hadn't noticed I have been saying Blackfire Torch is overpowered with Singed not the item itself is overpowered with other casters. An item that provides a lot of damage shouldn't be so effective on a tank.


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Jushiiro

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curxis View Post
Blackfire Torch is overpowered with Singed

you're right blackfire torch has everything signed wants: ap, health, mana.

The % hp proc is next to nothing though.


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VIOLENTxSHINOBI

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Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curxis View Post
When you play Singed, you don't burst a persons health to 50% then the torch ticks 2.5% out of 50%, Singed's poison trail deals a flat amount per dot with the blackfire torch so for the most part you're at 100% health having 2.5% ticked away with the flat damage from the poison trail possibly causing you to be taking more damage from the torch than the poison trail but eventually the damage from the poison will overcome the torch as Singed's opponent healths dwindle rapidly.
Also if you hadn't noticed I have been saying Blackfire Torch is overpowered with Singed not the item itself is overpowered with other casters. An item that provides a lot of damage shouldn't be so effective on a tank.
Except the part where it is an AoE...


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaser676 View Post
Wait, you really think blackfire is overpowered? What.... it's so weak
It's not that strong on paper, but you have to remember, it builds of 2 best to rush items - catalyst and gp/10 lucky pick. Those 2 items are great to buy early even if you are just going to sell them later.
Usually you don't get 6 items in TT, so you don't waste space with BT. So it's not that bad to boost your game with catalyst+lucky pick and upgrade into BT for "low" price.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-02-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

It looks a lot more attractive than it actually is right now. As someone's likely mentioned, it was overpowered on PBE when it was doing %max, so it was changed last-minute to %current to curb its power. It's a very difficult item to balance, so we're going to try something slightly different. Don't know if it'll make it into the upcoming patch or the one after that though.


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Draktok

Senior Member

11-02-2012

I don't think it's even worth building anymore at %current


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Pixilz

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seajaydub View Post
Blackfire Torch is a terrible, terrible, terrible item. If you kill an enemy, it is safe to assume that he spent half of the fight >50% hp and half the fight <50% hp. So, using 50% hp as a baseline for average hp throughout the fight, your enemy would need 9,640hp (give or take ~5hp to account for rounding) for Blackfire Torch to do, on average, THE SAME EXACT DAMAGE AS A SUNFIRE CAPE (provided you are using an AoE or a DoT, such as with singed). Mathematically, this is one of the worst effects in the game, and there is pretty much no reason to ever build the thing, other than the fact that it builds out of Kage's. Please do not complain about this. It is giving almost no damage to any champion that it is purchased on.

Here is the math if you really want to know:

9,640 max hp -> 0 hp = baseline 4,820 hp. 2.5% over 3 seconds comes out to ~0.83% damage per second. 4,820 * 0.0083 = 40.006 damage per second. These circumstances will never happen, so it deals less damage than sunfire 100% of the time on most champions. Please do not buy this item.

Lol at the downvoting. Math too difficult.

You do realize all singed has to do to deal more damage is press E? The second his E hits he starts the 5% debuff. During this time his poison will cause the 5% debuff to refresh until they are out of it long enough for the debuff to stop. So therefore it will be dealing double the dmg you listed. It is also worth mentioning singed doesnt even have to be near them for blackfire's debuff to go off. You could literally run a mile ahead of them and spam your death cloud everywhere you are. You also have to remember that Blackfire comes with AP which causes his poison trail to do slightly more dmg.


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Gazragar

Junior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MapNinja View Post
I won't comment on singed being broken. That's been done to death. But blackfire torch is a terrible item in general. Seajay did the math, but i'll just mention that BFT used to do a percentage of maximum health. Then, right before 3's was released live, they were worried BFT was overpowered and quickfixed it to do current health, effectively halving it's damage. That is a huge nerf to something that was arguably slightly overpowered. I never get it based off of this information alone.
Isn't it currently %max health, though? And if you couple that with Rylai's and a strong AoE champ (Rumble and Swain come to mind), the results really ARE devastating as all hell, since you can't escape from them, and their abilities + the 5%/tick dot are just insufferable.


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by seajaydub View Post
Blackfire Torch is a terrible, terrible, terrible item. If you kill an enemy, it is safe to assume that he spent half of the fight >50% hp and half the fight <50% hp. So, using 50% hp as a baseline for average hp throughout the fight, your enemy would need 9,640hp (give or take ~5hp to account for rounding) for Blackfire Torch to do, on average, THE SAME EXACT DAMAGE AS A SUNFIRE CAPE (provided you are using an AoE or a DoT, such as with singed). Mathematically, this is one of the worst effects in the game, and there is pretty much no reason to ever build the thing, other than the fact that it builds out of Kage's. Please do not complain about this. It is giving almost no damage to any champion that it is purchased on.

Here is the math if you really want to know:

9,640 max hp -> 0 hp = baseline 4,820 hp. 2.5% over 3 seconds comes out to ~0.83% damage per second. 4,820 * 0.0083 = 40.006 damage per second. These circumstances will never happen, so it deals less damage than sunfire 100% of the time on most champions. Please do not buy this item.

Lol at the downvoting. Math too difficult.
blackfire sure as hell is annoying on teemo though. every shroom does three ticks plus normal damage. Its just annoying hitting one mushroom and losing 600 hp


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

12-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
It looks a lot more attractive than it actually is right now. As someone's likely mentioned, it was overpowered on PBE when it was doing %max, so it was changed last-minute to %current to curb its power. It's a very difficult item to balance, so we're going to try something slightly different. Don't know if it'll make it into the upcoming patch or the one after that though.
hey riot nome you rascally dog, you do read these posts. read mine about the altars. thanks


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