Blackfire Torch nerf/removal and Draft on Shadow Isle.

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Curxis

Junior Member

11-01-2012

After the release of the Shadow Isle, I've checked the new map out and I've enjoyed it but I feel like I have to mention a few things that I dislike. 2 major things I'd like to be looked at.

1st off : Blackfire Torch's damage on dot skills being overpowered, champions like Singed make the Shadow Isle unplayable in Normal as 1 team always has a Singed causing that team to win mid-late game easily as the dot damage on poison is so high. I'm not sure if this is the case but if it is, it is incredibly overpowered with how Singed works, since his poison trail lasts for a few seconds, each second refreshes the passive of Blackfire Torch causing it to do 2.5% per dot + poison trail then you include the dot of the item and the skill dealing tons of damage while letting Singed be tanky as hell. He can run around in fights and demolish the enemy single handedly but if you pair Singed up with another target that requires priority, you have the choice of focusing the tank/bruiser(Singed) or the other high damage threat that is less tanky, both forces will demolish a team together as long as Singed gets a dot on each person on enemy team with poison trail.
(If it is unclear, I'm talking about how Singed's dot damage from poison trail can stack with Blackfire Torch's dot damage continiously resetting until you're out of the poison cloud then the dot damage will be for a flat duration each.)

The second issue is probably just draft outside of ranked in Shadow Isle, Riot probably made debates on this issue before but the clear presence of required bans on Shadow Isle prevent normals to be effective, as 1 champion can single handedly kill the enemy team.

Well just my very lengthy rant and whoever reads this will probably be annoyed but just thought I'd throw this out there into the forums and see what replies/feedback I'd get.


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netkitten

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Senior Member

11-01-2012

signed is unkillable with roa, roa is even better than torch since it gives more hp and mana and damage from torch is rather pitiful


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Curxis

Junior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by netkitten View Post
signed is unkillable with roa, roa is even better than torch since it gives more hp and mana and damage from torch is rather pitiful
What happens if Singed gets both items? They're now the main items on Singed in Shadow Isle from what I've seen and I have to say both have a role in demolishing the enemy team.


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seajaydub

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Blackfire Torch is a terrible, terrible, terrible item. If you kill an enemy, it is safe to assume that he spent half of the fight >50% hp and half the fight <50% hp. So, using 50% hp as a baseline for average hp throughout the fight, your enemy would need 9,640hp (give or take ~5hp to account for rounding) for Blackfire Torch to do, on average, THE SAME EXACT DAMAGE AS A SUNFIRE CAPE (provided you are using an AoE or a DoT, such as with singed). Mathematically, this is one of the worst effects in the game, and there is pretty much no reason to ever build the thing, other than the fact that it builds out of Kage's. Please do not complain about this. It is giving almost no damage to any champion that it is purchased on.

Here is the math if you really want to know:

9,640 max hp -> 0 hp = baseline 4,820 hp. 2.5% over 3 seconds comes out to ~0.83% damage per second. 4,820 * 0.0083 = 40.006 damage per second. These circumstances will never happen, so it deals less damage than sunfire 100% of the time on most champions. Please do not buy this item.

Lol at the downvoting. Math too difficult.


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MapNinja

Senior Member

11-02-2012

I won't comment on singed being broken. That's been done to death. But blackfire torch is a terrible item in general. Seajay did the math, but i'll just mention that BFT used to do a percentage of maximum health. Then, right before 3's was released live, they were worried BFT was overpowered and quickfixed it to do current health, effectively halving it's damage. That is a huge nerf to something that was arguably slightly overpowered. I never get it based off of this information alone.


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Kalarepa

Senior Member

11-02-2012

I think, that %dmg of Blackfire Torch needs to somehow scale with your AP. For example, if you have 0 AP, you do 0 extra damage, if you have 400AP, you do 4% extra damage. It should be an item for casters to help them kill bruisers. Not the other way.

It's just stupid, that full tank Singed will do exactly same damage with BT as 700AP mage. BT should be completely worthless, when used by tanks.


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Axil

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Senior Member

11-02-2012

lol @ black torch being op


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chaser676

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Wait, you really think blackfire is overpowered? What.... it's so weak


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Palladine

Senior Member

11-02-2012

I think more of the issue with Singed is that he does his consistent damage while being incredibly tanky against both damage types, rather than the torch itself. He does the same thing in Dominion where the torch isn't present, running around teams doing a lot of damage while the team is unable to kill him.

In general, I think the damage done vs. tankiness ratio of deathball teams (Darius + Singed + Volibear) is more of a problem in TT than the torch itself.


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Piggie B

Senior Member

11-02-2012

RiotNome has posted that Blackfire Torch will "likely be underpowered for a while." It was nerfed just before release. It really isn't very strong.


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