Mooglet's on Dominion

First Riot Post
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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
As a Ranged Ad player, I would like to know what's in store for them, I feel there are things that will benefit bruisers and assasins, And this item seems gonna make AP a lot more powerfull.
I didn't see a single item that I went "Awesome for ranged AD". The only thing I saw is a nerf to trinity force for ranged (and item that Corki, ezreal, Miss fortune, and ocasionally vayne and others enjoyed). And the nerf to phantom dancer that ranged ad suffered a while ago. The poor class wants some love.
You have that love. For one lifesteal stacks and there is alot of it. Secondly nearly all of your high end items have movespeed on them, Trinity Force, Ghost Blade, Phantom Dancer. You have great defensive damage options such as Wit's End. If someone can't burst you down you'll lifesteal back all your health back in seconds. What options do AP have that give all the above? They have nothing, they are only now just getting the love they need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Ranged AD will get a boost on Dominion with S3, but mainly because of how bruisers will be affected.
Ranged AD do not need a boost, bruisers just need a nerf. Certain ranged AD such as Vayne/Jaynce are already out of whack, do not make the situation worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orphane View Post
Hey Nome, this is pretty nice to hear. One question, though: now that Hextech Sweeper has finally gotten a nerf it deserves, is there a change planned to Lightbringer? It paled in comparison to Sweeper because the stat spread it offered was not nearly as attractive across the board and required a constant autoattack investment (which is almost always less range than most abilities), but constant vision is something everyone loves.
New Sweeper is a AP, CDR, Movespeed item. AD Already have that, it's called Ghostblade. Lightbringer just needs to be taken out of the map when the sweeper change goes through.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-02-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronicleX View Post
Ranged AD do not need a boost, bruisers just need a nerf. Certain ranged AD such as Vayne/Jaynce are already out of whack, do not make the situation worse.
I have to agree with you on this. Ranged ADs are actually just fine as is.
Kog'maw, Vayne, Vayne, Urgot, and Ezreal are all top-tier champions, and I'm not even gonna go into Jayce.

But that is actually more-or-less what Nome seems to have said.
The way he worded it, it sounds like ranged ADs are being left untouched while bruisers are gonna get some sort of nerfs.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-02-2012

Mm, the claim would be like saying that ap are fine because Kassadin, Teemo, Amumu and ryze are top tier champs.
Yes, they are some borderline exceptions that happens to be above the curve. Ranged ad still are below bruisers, assasins, Fighters/duelists and support in this map. They are not useless, it doesn't mean they aren't slightly underpowered.
What worries more is that it seems those classes are getting great items while ranged ad do not, which seems will put the distance further apart.
Now nome claims now there is some kind of nerf comming to bruisers at least... I guess I will have to wait and see.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-03-2012

No, I've seen a number of MFs do fairly well and the EUW guys supposedly use Corki a bit whenever Ezreal is taken/banned.
Tristana is also a fairly dangerous bot-laner if the player knows what he/she is doing.

Well, I guess a few of the carries could use a bit of a boost, but then again I think they're mostly in a good spot, and its just the few AD carries that need specific tweaks to bring them up to par.

Also, if you think about it, ranged ADs have simply amazing items.
IE + PD combo is absolutely absurd in terms of damage output, and combining that with lifesteal gives them absurd sustain.
It's just that if you misposition you die instantly since the ranged AD items are all glass-cannon, so you either need a tank or a lot of range to do your job effectively.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Again, I think that is not a good argument, I have also seen swain and brand and cassiopeia do well in tournaments, yet, there is no claim that ap do not need help?

I do not understand how your point is any evidence for ranged ad, but suddenly it's worthless for ap? Unless your claim is that AP champs do not need help and you are against the item buffs, that is the only way to see your claim to be consistent.

I do not knwo if you misundertanding me, I do not even think we really disagree wtih each other about the power level of the different champs in dominion. I'm not saying ranged ad is worthless, you have seen me playing it quite a few times. And If ladder were up tomorrow sure as hell I would be happy to pick Miss fortune and Caitlyn to rise my elo.

The problem is that ranged ad are marginally good picks, you can do what they do as well with other champs, mostly because they do not perform their work that well, just barely enough.

Even more so yes, sometimes they are great picks because the other 9 picks fit them perfectly, that is contrary to other " strong roles" like Fighter/duelist and even support, that you can always safely pick them, and you should always have in your team, because they are always strong.

I'm saying ranged ad is not viable? No, they are useless? no. But they are weak enough that they are many times not the right picks given the circunstances, if you compare for example to their role in SR, Where they are always a good pick. Same with duelists/fighters in dominion, always strong picks.

So you can infer from that that ranged ad are stronger in SR than in dominion, the same way duelist/fighters are stronger in dominion than in SR.

Hope I made myself clear what i mean with they would like some love.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-03-2012

I for one am somewhat inclined to disagree with you.
I would say that a ranged AD is always a good pick in Dominion, because of the sheer lategame power and superior ability to kill tanks and enemies on towers, and that it is *never* optimal to not have a ranged AD carry.

Ranged ADs aren't supposed to be good duelists. They are supposed to shred everything on the enemy team from long range while the rest of their team keeps them safe as they do their dirty work.

The biggest problem with them right now is that I feel the many gap-closing bruisers and assassins can easily jump on and kill them if they get out of position, but that's more of a champion balance thing, and Nome just strongly hinted at some form of bruiser nerfs in the future.

---

As for the recent changes to AP itemization, I am on the fence about those.
Hextech Sweeper was easily my favorite item because of its ability to reveal people who were hit by my spells, and I consider the removal of that to be a straight-up nerf to the item.

As for Witchcap, I personally am not a fan.
It just seems like Nome is trying to create a must-buy item for every mage in nearly every situation, but I feel like there are many mages who didn't need the help, some of which still won't be getting Witchcap (Brand, Swain), and Witchcap is still atrociously expensive while building out of similarly expensive pieces.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Ok, then I guess your claim is consistent, I do not say I agree with you, but I certainly value your opinion and will have it in mind in future though process.
Maybe I'm wrong about Ranged ad status. I will have to see how tournaments develop or how things rolls if ranked ever come in.


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MrSmileyy

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
Ok, then I guess your claim is consistent, I do not say I agree with you, but I certainly value your opinion and will have it in mind in future though process.
Maybe I'm wrong about Ranged ad status. I will have to see how tournaments develop or how things rolls if ranked ever come in.
If i may toss in my opinion here, I also think ranged ad are fine, they have great items and scale well, the issue is bruisers devour them. If the bruisers are even a little less able to do that consistently for the whole game, adc will see more love


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Westlin

Senior Member

11-03-2012

I saw a post saying Haunting Guise combined with Kage's will build into a reworked Blackfire torch which will likely come our way


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

11-03-2012

One thing I have to say about current mage AP itemization in Dominion is that, while generally underpowered across the board, pretty much every AP item has a place. Adding move speed to Sweeper just seems like it's going to make it the AP Phantom Dancer, with the Dominion version of Wooglet's being IE. While having 2 items that are more powerful would help out APs, it seems like it's really going to hurt itemization variety if the choice is so obvious. Adding Blackfire Torch, too, will help, though it builds out of Haunting Guise, which is already a fairly staple item here. But, really, we either need a complete set of items or something in the aura that adds value to AP, whether that is a % bonus, an AP ratio of on-hit damage, AP to stats, or whatever. Otherwise items like RoA, Zhonya's, Athene's, Morello's, and Archangel's will become even more situational and everyone will just build some combo of Wooglet's, Sweeper, Blackfire, Haunting Guise, Rylai's, DFG, and Void Staff on every AP champ.